Aren't Bicycles Great.

brat

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

I have a police question, I had a fairly nasty encounter with a driver this afternoon - there was no actual collision but he was verbally abusive and quite threatening with his car (I think, I'm not sure if he was distracted or doing it deliberately.) I'm not the sort of person to record every minor issue I see on the road but aside from feeling quite shaken from this, I felt it was something that driver has probably done before and will do again, possibly worse.

My question is, can I get the police just to note this down and if anything further is reported with this driver, they can check the history to see that it's not the first time?

Unfortunately I didn't have any cameras on the bike which is something I've been thinking about recently after that horrible clip with the Edinburgh cyclist. I already have five bike cameras but some of them are bulky and none last that long on battery so I'd need to keep taking them in and out to charge as well as take them off the bike when it's locked up in town or similar. In this case a bar mounted camera wouldn't have shown much which means I'd really want a front and rear camera. Does anyone have a camera set up they use for day to day commuting and transport?

John

I'm not too familiar with the Scottish systems, and English forces operate in different ways. Our force is rural, and probably still investigates more such reports than most, because we still have a little time to devote to such matters. We used to have a system whereby we would send letters to registered keepers of vehicle about the manner of driving if an 'unofficial' complaint was registered against that vehicle. I don't think we have the admin to do that anymore, but what it did do was flag up if the same vehicle was recorded more than once, and this would generate an enquiry.

We also have S59 warnings (S59 Police and Reform Act) which allows us to officially warn a driver who has driven carelessly and antisocially. If there is a requirement to further warn the driver about their behaviour, or if they have already been warned, their car can be seized. Generally in our force, if we were going to seize, we would also report the driver for the substantive offence of careless driving too.


In terms of prosecution, the CPS (or Fiscal) may prefer better evidence than you could offer ie your word against his. This is where video evidence is invaluable.


Like you, I am not interested in fighting battles with car drivers, or making each trip out on the bike a vigilante outing, so I have avoided using cameras for that purpose. I have been using a camera recently to record trips, mostly just to build up little snippets of interest for personal reflection. I bought a GoPro Hero Session, which is a little cube shaped POV camera, and it sits well on a chest mount. I don't like helmet mounts, I've tried it a couple of times and after a few hours it irritates.

They will be useful in the event of a collision, and one of the reasons I bought it was because the driver I collided with a few months ago has presented a completely untrue version of how the collision occurred, which has complicated my claim for a replacement bike, causing it to take longer than I would have liked.

Johnmcl7

brat wrote: »

Those arguments are all very well for softer road surfaces, trails or mtb paths, but they don't hold for smooth road surfaces.
A contact patch will depend more on tyre pressure than size, and the weight on the contact patch against the forward momentum are the main criteria for stopping and cornering effectively. Knobbly mountain bike tyres will not be as effective as smooth road bike tyres for grip on smoothish hard road surfaces. Sheldon explains all https://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

That link is based on older tyres - the mountain bike tyres I use are huge compared to normal MTB tyres, never mind road bike tyres so I can hammer the brakes on hard without locking them even on the road. The super low pressure means even with the knobs the contact patch is enormous (people frequently think I have a puncture). I can't brake anything like as hard on the road bike as it will immediately lock the wheel, even without the knobs and decent Continental rubber the contact patch is tiny.

I'm going by actual practice - I'm guessing you don't ride fat mountain bike, their traction is far more than a conventional mountain bike.

John

Johnmcl7

brat wrote: »

In terms of prosecution, the CPS (or Fiscal) may prefer better evidence than you could offer ie your word against his. This is where video evidence is invaluable.

That's exactly it, if I'd had video evidence in this case I'd have probably reported the guy to the police as it's clearcut what's happened and then it's up to them to decide what to do. With no evidence at all it would be my word vs his and given the driver's behaviour I don't doubt he'd make up that I was doing something terrible.

Like you, I am not interested in fighting battles with car drivers, or making each trip out on the bike a vigilante outing, so I have avoided using cameras for that purpose. I have been using a camera recently to record trips, mostly just to build up little snippets of interest for personal reflection. I bought a GoPro Hero Session, which is a little cube shaped POV camera, and it sits well on a chest mount. I don't like helmet mounts, I've tried it a couple of times and after a few hours it irritates.

They will be useful in the event of a collision, and one of the reasons I bought it was because the driver I collided with a few months ago has presented a completely untrue version of how the collision occurred, which has complicated my claim for a replacement bike, causing it to take longer than I would have liked.

It's the latter that concerns me, there's very rarely anything I'd need the camera to record but those few times are when I'd really want to have it.

John

Johnmcl7

Anyway, back to more positive things...I found something with more traction than the fat bike:



Thankfully they had been doing any work across the downhill trail as I'd feared when I saw the massive tracks at the top.

Yet another trip to Loch Ness after we had a new member of the group who hadn't been out that way, good night for it anyway:



Just back in time to chuck the lock in my backpack and hoof it to the local polling station:



John

brat

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

I'm going by actual practice - I'm guessing you don't ride fat mountain bike, their traction is far more than a conventional mountain bike.
John

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :beer:

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

It's the latter that concerns me, there's very rarely anything I'd need the camera to record but those few times are when I'd really want to have it.

John

I'm not a fan of the reputation that some camera wielding vigilante cyclists have, which is one of the reasons I prefer a chest mount - it's more covert. I've taken hours of video so far - hundreds of Gigabytes of it, but virtually nothing worth retaining.
Doubtless the time I need it will be the time I leave it at home or the battery has run out.

esuhl

Had a lovely 26 mile ride today, half off-road, which was nice. I'd forgotten how relaxing it is when you don't have to worry about crazy drivers.

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Just back in time to chuck the lock in my backpack and hoof it to the local polling station:

I like that last photo -- you can really get a good look at those tyres! What size are they, out of interest?

The fatbikes I'd seen before had crazy tyres, maybe even bigger than in the pic below. I'm not sure how practical they would be... :-/


And I just came across this bike with two front wheels! It looks amazing! I'd love a test-ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OJYopJ7MU

Johnmcl7

brat wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the reputation that some camera wielding vigilante cyclists have, which is one of the reasons I prefer a chest mount - it's more covert. I've taken hours of video so far - hundreds of Gigabytes of it, but virtually nothing worth retaining.
Doubtless the time I need it will be the time I leave it at home or the battery has run out.

I fully agree and it's unfortunate because I was thinking the helmet mount makes the most sense, my helmet has the gopro mount so it fixes on nicely, I wouldn't have to take the camera off separately when leaving the bike and would make it easier for charging as well as I always take the helmet in with me. The big but however is that the camera wielding vigilantes have unfortunately given cameras such a bad name I'd be concerned at how some drivers would react on seeing it.

I do find video difficult in general in that with a photo, you generally take the photo or two and that's it - you have your photo whereas with video you can take hours and hours and only use a few minutes from it yet that can be all it needs.

I may give it a go but as you say unless taking a very thorough approach and keep it with me at all times and always charged it could well miss out when I need it.

John

Johnmcl7

esuhl wrote: »

Had a lovely 26 mile ride today, half off-road, which was nice. I'd forgotten how relaxing it is when you don't have to worry about crazy drivers.

It's one of the reasons I enjoy mountain biking for the lack of drivers. I was doing some road cycling in darkness to get out in the evenings, the roads are quieter and I find cars give me more room on average so it was a shock to the system the other weekend when going on a longer cycle during the day.

I like that last photo -- you can really get a good look at those tyres! What size are they, out of interest?

The fatbikes I'd seen before had crazy tyres, maybe even bigger than in the pic below. I'm not sure how practical they would be... :-/

The purple bike is what's known as a 29+ bike, it has a three inch wide tyre rather than 4in wide which is where fat tyres start. Confusingly there's two plus standards, the main one is 27.5+/650b+ which is basically a three inch wide version of a 27.5in wheel and it's been getting popular quickly. One of its main advantages is that a 27.5+ wheel is around the same diameter as a normal 29er wheel (there's more tyre which adds to the diameter) so companies can keep the same geometry as their 29ers and just widen it a little. Also fat bikes which mostly use a 26in rim are also around the same size as a 29er wheel (much more tyre), so a lot of fat bikes can take 27.5+ tyres as well.

It's seen as a happy medium between fat and normal mountain bikes giving more traction but without the drag and compromises a fat bike brings.

Trek unusually went with the bigger 29+ standard which has fairly big wheels, bigger even than a 29er. Surly and Genesis are generally the only ones using this standard as the big wheel is difficult to work with so they've used it for their more tourer orientated bikes. Trek thought the 29+ tyre was more squishy than the smaller 27.5+ tyres so they made a trail bike with the bigger wheels, using an unusual chainstay design to keep the back of the back small.

On paper the bike looks an ideal counterpart to my rigid fat bike, on faster, drier trails I find the lack of suspension is hard on my shoulders and the fat tyres aren't giving the same traction advantage. In practice though I'm not sure so far, one of the advantages of the big tyres is you can run them at very low pressures so they just float over rough stuff making it easy to carry speed over bumpy and rooty track that the suspension can't match. To my surprise, cross country the plus bike hasn't got anywhere close to the speed of the fat bike despite the fact it's lighter and has smaller tyres.

On the downhill it's an absolute demon shaving nearly 25 seconds off my fastest ever time (which includes a full suspension 29er), in that sort of riding it works well as it's getting more traction from its wheels but still rolls fast.

I do love the fat bike, it's been a real surprise to me as it's just so fun to ride - it makes riding any just about any conditions a good laugh and I ended up taking it racing a fair bit last year when I don't normally do races. I'm amused as an older guy who's part of our MTB group wasn't keen on my fat bike, repeatedly referring to it as the 'tractor' (in a friendly way), he does a lot of mountaineering and was after a bike that would work well completely off the beaten track so I suggested a second hand fat bike one of his friends was selling. Fair play to him, he kept an open mind and is loving it so far for both his mountaineering and normal riding.

John

esuhl

Wow! Thanks for such a detailed response. I didn't realise there were so many new (non-26") wheel/tyre options.

Had another lovely ride in the sun... marred by one idiot who deliberately tried to hit me. I'm still shaking. I first saw him when he didn't look right until he'd started pulling out in front of me. He jumped on the brakes, but continued rolling into the road. I veered towards the centre of the lane to go round him as there was hardly enough time to stop.

It looked like he was intending to turn right (the direction I'd come from), but I saw in my mirror that he turned left to follow me. I didn't think anything of it and picked up speed going down a hill. It took a minute for him to catch me up. He slowly pulled alongside me matching my speed of around 25 to 28mph, then veered left fairly sharply, trying to push me into the kerb.

I slammed on the brakes, and he pulled in front missing me by a few centimetres, with barely 10cm between his wheels and the kerb... At which point he turned right and disappeared.

I have literally had enough. I love cycling, but experiences like this almost make me want to give up for good.

I could get expensive cameras, but I can't really see the police doing much. Even if the driver got three points and a fine, it's not much of a discouragement. I can't see him being charged with anything more serious. And, if he hit me, would he be charged with ABH and get 3 months in prison? I doubt it.

Maybe I'm a bit emotional at the moment, but the only worthwhile things I can think that might help would be a loud horn (so I don't have to shout pointlessly), and carrying some small rocks or 2p coins, so at least I can use these vehicles as target practice as well, to return the "favour". Maybe I should mount my D-lock on my bike so I can easily grab it and smash the windows of anyone trying to kill me. I'm not sure what it would achieve, but maybe it would make these idiots think before they act so recklessly? At least a vehicle might actually stop and the police will be involved. (I think I'm... half joking... :-/ )

I used to find cycling the best way to treat depression and anxiety, but when things like this happen, it just kills me. I won't be able to get it out of my mind for months. And there's nothing that can be done or will be done to stop other drivers behaving like this.

I wonder how many reported "accidents" with cyclists are a lot more deliberate than ever comes to light. I wonder how many murders have gone unpunished.

(Okay, enough melodrama today... grumble, grumble...)

daivid

Sounds horrendous, I hope you can get out again and be shown this idiot was simply an aberration. Had three unpleasant incidents over a fortnight last year, none since, sometimes we are just unfortunate enough to be in the same space as a moron. I have no idea if camera's are the solution but if they give people confidence (and don't turn them into provocateurs) then what is the harm.