Dismissed for Gross Misconduct

idiotgambler

First post looking for advice.

So recently i have been dismissed for gross misconduct, something i have owned up to.

Basically i transferred funds from the business to myself. II made sure these funds could be tracked back to me therefore allowing me to pay back immediatley and claim it was a mistake. As soon as i transferred the funds i knew i had been an extreme idiot. However i continued to lie and go with the story i had developed in my head.

Initially i convinced a manager and paid the money back. However when pressed further by another manager i owned up to what i had done.

I was suspended with pay. As soon as i got home i contacted the 2 managers to explain what i had done fully and that i had a gambling problem which i have been struggling to deal with for the past 10 years.


I used the time in which i was suspended to oraganise a doctors appointment and seek help for my addiction. I managed to get a doctors appointment the next day and was diagnosed with depression and was referred to councilling. I was also on medication - accutane - which is a really powerful medication which has side effects including - irrational behaviour.

I myself now a week later still cannot explain my actions. I have a good track record with the company recently being promoted. I have never stolen before, never been in trouble with the police. Although i have been dealing with a gambling addiction this behaviour is completely un-characteristic of myself.

I attended the disciplinary hearing and tried to explain all i was going through, what i was doing to try and sort it, explained the medication may have had a part to play. I also made it clear by deep remorse, embarassment and shame i had and made it absolutely clear that i had never ever had done anything like this before or will ever ever do anything like it again. However un-suprisingly i was sacked immediately for gross misconduct.

However i do feel i went into that meeting with a pre-determined outcome. I accept how seriious theft is and how lucky i am to not have criminal charges taken against me.

However i need some advice.

If i were to appeal could this be done on grounds that my mitigating cicumstances were not taken seriously therefore unfair procedure?

The same with already having a pre-decided decision? I know this may be hard to prove if the decision was made verbally.

Obviously im not expecting any of the responses to the above to be positive, im fully aware of my actions and the extreme seriousness of them im just seeing if there is anything at all i can do.

This may be appealing to try and re-itterate these circumstances.

Also

where do i go from now?

Im already dealing with the gambling problem and appplying for all the jobs i can even if i am overly qualified. However again i am concerned with the type of reference i may receive.

Can i ask a previous colleague that i get on with to provide a reference?


Thanks in advance for any help.

Undervalued

idiotgambler wrote: »

Can i ask a previous colleague that i get on with to provide a reference?

Well you can certainly ask. Some firms have tight rules about who can provide references and what they may say. Others are more relaxed.

Legally, any reference given must be true and not deliberately misleading. So they could perfectly well say why you were dismissed. Equally though quite a lot of companies only confirm dates employed.

Regarding your other questions......

Dismissal is well within the range of reasonable responses to your admitted behaviour.

Whilst a company should listen to mitigation they are not under any legal obligation to take account of it.

So, any appeal simply comes down to an attempt to persuade them you won't do it again and your previous work record justifies giving you another chance.

I have to be honest and say I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sorry.

Cheeky_Monkey

Please don't bother trying to appeal - you have no provable grounds for it and it will just increase your stress.

At the end of the day, mitigating circumstances are just an explanation for what you did but, given the seriousness of what you did, were never going to be enough to stop you being dismissed for gross misconduct.

The fact that you were in a position to transfer the funds to yourself in the first place means that your employer has to have 100% trust in your honesty/integrity and you betrayed that trust.

Snakey

They probably had decided it in advance and the hearing was just a formality. This is frustrating I know because you go in there assuming that you're going to get a "fair hearing" i.e. that what you say might make a difference, and then when you realise you never stood a chance it makes you feel stupid and embarrassed that you took it at face value and bared your soul etc. But I think that it really helped your case that you did take it seriously and that you said all those things. Had you not done so, they might well have called in the police.

You will never prove that the outcome was pre-determined. It will just cause you more stress to fight it. It also costs money as well, these days, to take a case to a tribunal. Best to draw a line under it and concentrate on what you're going to do next.

Is there anybody you can speak to - HR or your old line manager - to confirm whether they will give you a reference if asked (vs refusing to provide one) and, if they would provide one, what it will say? Sometimes employers have a policy of doing nothing more than confirming your job title and the dates you worked there. If that's the case here, then what you've done might not be the end of your career and it would be comforting for you to know that. But you do need to confirm it, because even if they have a policy there might be exceptions.

If an individual who happens to work at the company gives you a reference, that's only a personal reference. If they pretend that they are speaking on behalf of the company they can get into serious trouble.

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

It may well be that the obvious remorse you displayed during your attendance at the disciplinary hearing was a factor in the company not instigating criminal proceedings for theft - which as you acknowledge was a possibility.

The post above by Snakey outlines the probable situation regarding a reference i.e.

Sometimes employers have a policy of doing nothing more than confirming your job title and the dates you worked there.

I also agree you have no grounds for appeal. Have you considered that such an appeal may make the company reconsider their decision not to pursue criminal charges?

Another_not_new_user

idiotgambler wrote: »

Can i ask a previous colleague that i get on with to provide a reference?

Unless they intend to tell the truth, and also have the authority to give a reference on behalf of the employer, then you should not ask. If they say yes and lie, or purport to be giving an employers reference when they are not authorised to do so, then you are asking them to put their own job on the line for you. That is not a fair request. All employers want a formal reference from the previous employer - a second reference which isn't specific would be ok though if that is what is asked for. But a great many employers would dismiss someone they found to have given an inaccurate reference in their name. And these things do have a way of coming out.

idiotgambler

Thanks all for the responses.

Obviously i would not ask anyone to give reference and cost anyone else their job. Thats the last thing i want.

I have tried contacting my previous boss did say to keep in contact at the end of my dismissal, i beleive he was as upset as me about this and would have possibly kept me had the decision been solely his, however my requests asking what reference they will give have been ignored. Could this be down to the fact i can still appeal?

Also i was expecting that i had no grounds to appeal but just wanted this confirmed by others just in case there were any legislations/grounds where i may be succesful but this was just an optimistic question.

Obbviously going forward i am dealing with my gambling issues through many steps including gamblers annonymous and counselling, however when applying for new jobs is it best to be upfront and honest for the reasons i left?

Or is it best to fabricate a story?

Obviously this would depend heavily on the reference.

Babbawah

idiotgambler wrote: »

Obbviously going forward i am dealing with my gambling issues through many steps including gamblers annonymous and counselling, however when applying for new jobs is it best to be upfront and honest for the reasons i left?

Or is it best to fabricate a story?

Obviously this would depend heavily on the reference.

Good luck with beating the gambling.

Mentioning that you were dismissed from your previous job because of theft from the employer would make you unemployable IMO. There are folk out there who might give you a break, but most wouldn't.

Getting the next job will be hard, but not half as hard as beating the gambling.

elsien

Your colleague may be willing and able to provide a personal reference for you.
They may be unable to provide a work reference due to company policy. In my last company, any reference I wrote for staff in my capacity as manager had to be signed off by my manager to make sure it didn't land the company in trouble. Plus if the reference asks them about disciplinaries for a work reference, they're not going to lie for you.

TBagpuss

I agree with PPs that asking for a reference when you have been dismissed for gross misconduct involving dishonesty is unlikely to be successful.
Employers are aware that they have legal obligations in relation to references, and may feel more comfortable simply refusing to provide a reference, rather than having to decide hoe much, or hoe little, to say, in order to be honest and fair both to you and to any potential future employer.

Your colleague may well be unable to give you anything other than a personal reference - certainly where I work, there are strict rules about who is authorised to provide references on behalf of the company, so your colleague could him- or herself get into trouble if they were to give you a reference.