Poor treatment by my employer

AgentOrange123

Cornucopia wrote: »

Difficult as it may seem, you really should think carefully before resigning. As has already been noted, it is very difficult to make a winnable case for Constructive Dismissal, but making one for Unfair Dismissal is somewhat easier as long as the basic criteria are met.

Has there been any indication of what action they may want to take in connection with your Disciplinary? Might they be prepared to consider a Compromise Agreement, if you are already thinking about leaving?

Thanks for the reply.

There was no suggestion of possible outcomes in the letter they sent, so in my reply I asked for that, but they haven't given me any - they just said that was impossible to say until the hearing.

The reasons they have given for the disciplinary are quite weak to my mind. I think it highly unlikely they would be silly enough to dismiss me for them, as essentially they are all a result of either (1) my new horrid boss, who has already been hauled over the coals for his behaviour towards me, or (2) my depression, which was diagnosed and for which THEY acknowledged and wrote me a letter confirming their support and suggested I had time off. So I’m guessing if they dismissed me a result of this they’d be in trouble.

But this is why I view the starting of the disciplinary process as an engineered action to get me to resign. It’ll likely end in just a warning, but the repercussions for me are that I’m being made to feel singled-out due to my illness, and that I’m facing returning to work in close proximity to people that were prepared to / coerced in to writing statements about me which, whilst partly true but explainable, are generally exaggerated and untrue. There’s no way I can face that in my state.

I know I’m better off walking away and focusing on getting better and finding new work without all this over me, but there’s still a very angry part of me that doesn’t want them to get away with it.

HardCoreProgrammer

AgentOrange123,

Sorry to hear what you are going through.
Please think about yourself first as life is too short. I once experienced something similar in a job in the past. I stayed (because of fear of losing my home, etc.) and in the end completely lost any energy to do anything positive (such as looking for another job). It became a downward spiral and took me nearly 3 years to pull myself out. If there are people who love and care for you, I think they would rather have no money to live on than see you so unhappy.

Just walk out of that place with your head high, don't look back, lock the memory of that job in a corner of your mind and keep it there.

One more practical point: Try to negotiate to have the disciplinary action dropped and a written reference, in return for going quietly. Disciplinary action can stay on your records for 12 months which may make finding employment more difficult, and you certainly do not want the reference "resigned while pending disciplinary action".

Cornucopia, Undervalued,

From reading this thread, I think OP is just going to resign without claiming constructive dismissal.

AgentOrange123

HardCoreProgrammer wrote: »

AgentOrange123,

Sorry to hear what you are going through.
Please think about yourself first as life is too short. I once experienced something similar in a job in the past. I stayed (because of fear of losing my home, etc.) and in the end completely lost any energy to do anything positive (such as looking for another job). It became a downward spiral and took me nearly 3 years to pull myself out. If there are people who love and care for you, I think they would rather have no money to live on than see you so unhappy.

Just walk out of that place with your head high, don't look back, lock the memory of that job in a corner of your mind and keep it there.

One more practical point: Try to negotiate to have the disciplinary action dropped and a written reference, in return for going quietly. Disciplinary action can stay on your records for 12 months which may make finding employment more difficult, and you certainly do not want the reference "resigned while pending disciplinary action".

Cornucopia, Undervalued,

From reading this thread, I think OP is just going to resign without claiming constructive dismissal.

That's a lovely message thanks a lot.

They are a stubborn bunch and think they know it all when they don't (hence starting a disciplinary over something like this), and I don't know if negotiating would work. But thanks for the advice. I'd not even considered about references. What a terrible situation. I can't believe this is happening, after all the time and effort I've given them!!

Another_not_new_user

AgentOrange123 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

There was no suggestion of possible outcomes in the letter they sent, so in my reply I asked for that, but they haven't given me any - they just said that was impossible to say until the hearing.

The reasons they have given for the disciplinary are quite weak to my mind. I think it highly unlikely they would be silly enough to dismiss me for them, as essentially they are all a result of either (1) my new horrid boss, who has already been hauled over the coals for his behaviour towards me, or (2) my depression, which was diagnosed and for which THEY acknowledged and wrote me a letter confirming their support and suggested I had time off. So I’m guessing if they dismissed me a result of this they’d be in trouble.

But this is why I view the starting of the disciplinary process as an engineered action to get me to resign. It’ll likely end in just a warning, but the repercussions for me are that I’m being made to feel singled-out due to my illness, and that I’m facing returning to work in close proximity to people that were prepared to / coerced in to writing statements about me which, whilst partly true but explainable, are generally exaggerated and untrue. There’s no way I can face that in my state.

I know I’m better off walking away and focusing on getting better and finding new work without all this over me, but there’s still a very angry part of me that doesn’t want them to get away with it.

You probably aren't going to want to hear this, but I am going to risk it anyway. I agree with others that you should not resign. I also ought to point out that although there are never guarantees, there is a good possibility that they are not considering dismissal at all, because if they were it should be mentioned in the letter asking you to attend the disciplinary.


But... being concerned about your sickness and taking a responsible attitude towards the duty of care the owe to an employee is not the same thing as saying that they should not, if there are grounds to believe that an offence has been committed, examine allegations of misconduct. Depression is a difficult condition and can lead to all sorts of out of character actions and decisions, and can also make it hard to accurately judge situations. What you see as a conspiracy may not actually be one at all. It may be that your illness has caused you to act in ways that you wouldn't normally do towards your colleagues, without you even noticing. And if the manager has been "hauled over the coals" and the employer doesn't agree with their actions, why did the employer allow your role to be adjusted - because a manager cannot simply change roles and conditions with no reference at all to the employer.


Taking a hard look at this situation, isn't it just possible that the depression has affected the ways you relate to others and that is why your colleagues and your manager have complained? Because even you admit that they are "partly true" - so if you, from your own subjective position think that, isn't it entirely possible that from their subjective view, what they have said is what they also believe to be true? What you think is exaggerated may, in fact, be how it felt to them. Their statements, after all, are based on what they felt - not what you felt or what your meant. And if the events are explainable - then that is what the disciplinary allows you to do - to explain.


It may be very hard to swallow, but it is still possible to recover this situation, even if it does result in a warning - which is actually not the end of the world. If you approach this constructively, accepting that there may have been errors of judgement on your part, but that they were certainly never meant by you, and pointing to the fact that a depression does not just suddenly appear so the chances are that it has been affecting your judgement for some time, then you would have a strong mitigation. After all, even if only to an extent, this does appear to be what you discern to be the truth. On the other hand you can be just as stubborn as you suggest they are, refuse to acknowledge your own part or compromise, be dead set against trying to resolve this, and risk your employment.


If you feel you have to leave anyway, isn't it at least better to do it on your own terms and in your own time?

Wanno

Hi there
I just thought I would post because your OP resonated so strongly with me.
I resigned from my post as an Investigations Manager at a regulatory body in November. I've long had depression but have always managed to keep it from affecting my role or sickness absence. Unfortunately I changed medication and had some terrible physical side effects which I initially thought were unconnected to the change in medication. Whilst I was off my employer started disciplinary procedures against me for 1. not keeping them adequately informed about my illness Duringt he time I was off, 2. Not supplying medical notes quickly enough. (I had trouble walking and live on my own etc etc so it was just impossible to get them sent in or to update on a condition I knew nothing about). Notes sent in and disciplinary action still stated as going ahead. Whilst I was off, my team told me they were being asked questions about how I managed and did I give them write ups of notes etc, basically fishing.
I did the hardest thing possible and returned to work (mainly because I couldn't really survive on SSP). They decided to hold the disciplinary on the second day of my return to work. I asked for it to be delayed as I think everyone could see I wasn't quite well enough to be back. I ended up writing a statement and refused to attend any hearing stating that I was not in a fit state to answer questions whilst my health was not 100% and stated the proceedings were exasperating the already serious condition.

Why am I writing this, in the end I resigned after about three weeks back. I couldn't trust what was being investigated, my highlighting of obvious errors and inaccuracies in the ongoing disciplinary investigation only reaffirmed that it wasn't going to be a fair process (I was up for a disciplinary for being too ill to send in medical notes but then sent them in when I could actually walk again? Really, what kind of warning could be drafted for that?)
Ultimately you have to decide if you are strong enough to go back in and face this. Or write a statement detailing everything. You can have it happen in your absence, but is it likely to contain all the correct facts and you won't be able to question your team on their statements?

I'm far far happier now away from the toxic environment which became where I had to question everything or suspicious (mainly because every meeting I had, even about day to day business was taped or recorded and signed unlike every other manager - really fantastic behaviour honestly whilst recovering from a condition that makes you more suceptible to negative thoughts) I've taken a number of part time positions making up one full time position which means I get to have a proper break and recover my confidence from this, flexibility when the black dog does creep too close, and to reasses what I want. I know my reference will be clear as I confirmed this before my departure.

I wish you a lot of luck in whatever you decide. Mine was the correct decision, to go back, leave with my head held high to colleagues who knew and supported me, and to hopefully have shown something to those who fished for non existent dirt. I resigned before a likely already decided disciplinary (despite ridiculous 'allegations'). I made sure my reference would be positive and not for the line manager who intiated the investigation. I encourage you to do that one thing in whatever you decide.

Ultimately, look after yourself and your future employability. To hell with what your colleagues at this place think of you. They will be in the past very soon and you will have new colleagues as soon as you feel able.
Best of luck.

dori2o

Sorry for shouting but

DO NOT RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The best thing that could have happened for you in the current situation has happened, the Dr has officially diagnosed you as sufferring from a mental illness.

Rather than looking to sack you I have a feeling that your employer may look to go down the route of capabilities, in which case you have a much stronger hand.

If it is the case then they have t give you time to prove that performance etc can improve after changes have been made to 'help' yoou to meet targets (even reduced targets) and get back on track.

If they are still looking at a disciplinary and not looking at capabilities dont worry, you still have a good hand.

As someone sufferring from a mental health condition it is likely that you will be covered under the Equality Act 2010. What that means is you could well be considered to be disabled and as such your employer has a duty to make reasonable adjustments which again include things like reduced targets, alternative working patterns, additional breaks, time off for medical appointments etc etc.

If your employer was to try and use this disciplinary to get rid of you then you would have a decent chance of sucessfully taking them to court for disability discrimination on the grounds of failing in their duty to make reasonable adjustments and also unfair dismissal.

Finally, your employer should have a procedure in place for you to complete a Stress Risk Assessment.

This is your chance to put into writing what it is in the workplace that is causing stress.

The form should be completed by you and a manager together, with you identifying the areas where stress is a factor and your manager showing how they intend to help you to resolve this issue.

What ever you do DO NOT RESIGN!!!

Also, your employer is wong when they say that you have to attend the meeting alone. Even where there is no recognised Union your employer has to give you the opportunity to be accompanied in the meeting by an appropriate colleague.

Just remember, DO NOT RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just see how things pan out first and come back to us or speak to an employment solicitor. many give free 30 min/1hr consultations.

You can always be looking for a new job whilst still employed in this one. Don't forget that if you resign you will not be entitled to claim JSA immediately.

Takeaway_Addict

I agree with ANNU, you come across as you have done nothing wrong and it is all the employer when it realistic terms both parties most likely contributed.

Dori20 makes comments about reasonable adjustments, just a point on these, what determines reasonable is not laid out in stone so if the employer says something isn't reasonable (ie lowering targets) then you would have to take them to a tribunal to prove this isn't true. You can't force an employer to lower targets into loss making ones for example.

Also, you have to think more like a business IMO, you could as Dori20 suggests take this to a tribunal but this can cost and is almost guaranteed to heap on further stress and take upto a year to finish. Perhaps you might want a clean break and you might want to look at a settlement agreement where you can get an agreed reference and a little bit of money for leaving without taking further action. It does need the employer to want this as well but if you labour the point about equality act and discrimination they might just decide that actually for a few grand and a reference they can get rid of you quickly.

Just some thoughts but make sure you do get proper advice before acting!

sew109

Do you think that after explains about your medical condition to your employer that they have acted in a way that could have made this worse or at the very least not helped you enough ? Do you think think that if your employer had addressed this better that you would not be as unwell as you are now ? If you do it's worth speaking to a lawyer for an opinion check to see if you have this facility available with your house insurance you may well have this if not have a chat with a union such as Unite.
Good luck