Self assessment large tax bill question

chrismac1

Pennywise I think your problem may be in not realising what RTI was actually all about. RTI stood for

Rubbishy Tax Implementation

This explains why HMRC constantly give themselves lots of praise for how well they have done with it.

dori2o

Pennywise wrote: »

Only if the OP kept their accountant involved throughout the year as to what they were earning!

As for HMRC being blameless, surely one of the "benefits" of RTI often trotted by out HMRC to justify the costs of hassle of RTI was that they would have live information every payday so could keep on top of things to help avoid large under/over payments?

So, according to Dori, HMRC who had the information every payday, are blameless, but the accountant, who probably only saw first sight of the P45s etc a few weeks ago is at fault.

Priceless!

If you had actually bothered to read what I wrote you will see that at noo point at all did I blame the accountant for the error.

What I said was that it's unfortunate that the accountant decided without investigation into the facts that HMRC were to blame.

As for the issue with RTI, it was never designed for that purpose. How would HMRC know that the taxpayer wasn't paying into a personal pension and therefore wouldn't have an income in excess of £100k at the year end, despite what the figures on the end of year submissions are?

It is and always has been the responsibility of the individual taxpayer to notify HMRC of a change of circumstances.

If that doesn't happen then the blame lies either at the taxpayers feet, or the feet of their incompetent accountants.

chrismac1

RTI
Rubbishy Tax Implementation

Once you understand that, everything else about it makes sense.

quietriot

Edit: removed as he's not worth it

Pennywise

dori2o wrote: »

As for the issue with RTI, it was never designed for that purpose.

It has regularly been trotted out by HMRC as justification for the fiasco that has been the introduction of RTI!

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/making-it-easier-for-hmrc-customers-to-deal-with-their-taxes/supporting-pages/real-time-information-rti-for-paye

"Under RTI, employers and pension providers will send us information each time they pay their employees; we will be able to keep more accurate records and, over time, more people will pay the correct tax."

dori2o wrote: »

the blame lies either at the taxpayers feet, or the feet of their incompetent accountants.

Evidence? There's plenty of evidence of HMRC's failings. Massive increases in appeals and complaints through the tribunals and adjudicator system. Constantly in the top of the "worst organisation" league tables, constantly failing targets for answering the phone or replying to letters. Even with the promised benefits of RTI, hundreds of thousands of PAYE people still ended up paying the wrong tax because HMRC didn't act on information they had. What evidence do you have that in this case, it's the OP or their accountant at fault?

dori2o

Pennywise wrote: »

It has regularly been trotted out by HMRC as justification for the fiasco that has been the introduction of RTI!

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/making-it-easier-for-hmrc-customers-to-deal-with-their-taxes/supporting-pages/real-time-information-rti-for-paye

"Under RTI, employers and pension providers will send us information each time they pay their employees; we will be able to keep more accurate records and, over time, more people will pay the correct tax."



Evidence? There's plenty of evidence of HMRC's failings. Massive increases in appeals and complaints through the tribunals and adjudicator system. Constantly in the top of the "worst organisation" league tables, constantly failing targets for answering the phone or replying to letters. Even with the promised benefits of RTI, hundreds of thousands of PAYE people still ended up paying the wrong tax because HMRC didn't act on information they had. What evidence do you have that in this case, it's the OP or their accountant at fault?

How about their income being over £100k but not notifying HMRC
How about the fact that the OP has said that the tax code on their payslip differs to the code issued by HMRC. Employees should be checking that the code issued matches the code on the payslip
How about the fact that the OP acknowledges that their code included EXP but that these had ceased in the 13/14 tax year?

All things that the individual is responsible for when it comes to notifying HMRC.

Pennywise

dori2o wrote: »

How about their income being over £100k but not notifying HMRC
How about the fact that the OP has said that the tax code on their payslip differs to the code issued by HMRC. Employees should be checking that the code issued matches the code on the payslip
How about the fact that the OP acknowledges that their code included EXP but that these had ceased in the 13/14 tax year?

All things that the individual is responsible for when it comes to notifying HMRC.

So which of those are the responsibility of the "incompetent accountant" in this case?

dori2o

Pennywise wrote: »

So which of those are the responsibility of the "incompetent accountant" in this case?

It depends on what the relationship is between the client and accountant. If they have paid for the accountant to deal with their tax affairs in full then surely the accountant should have been aware of the circumstances.

If the relationship is purely one where the accountant fills in the return and has no other dealings then it's down to their client t resolve these issues.

You and Chrismac seem to have no problems at all using this forum to belittle those who work for HMRC, despite the fact those on the front line have very little to do with how the organisation is run. In fact it seems you would rather do this than provide helpful discussion to the issues being discussed.

You both have a massive chip on your shoulders and quite frankly it's getting tiresome.

I have stayed away from this board for some time as I got sick and tired of it becoming nothing more than a place for you two to go HMRC employee bashing.

Those of us who work for HMRC should not be posting advice on this forum, it's actually against policy for us to do so, but I have posted and helped people where I believed I could offer advice on how to resolve peoples queries.

However, I'm done. I won't be entering this section of the forum anymore. I come on here to provide help not to be the subject of HMRC bashing.