Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

IveSeenTheLight

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If Scotland gets FFA and ends up obviously worse off, what then?

I fully expect that the road of FFA will not be a smooth one and certainly will have it's downs as well as ups.

I always thought that if we gained independence, then initially we would be comparatively worse off, but with FFA, at least we have the mechanisms to choose our own path and identify solutions in a far swifter and more efficient way.

ruggedtoast

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I fully expect that the road of FFA will not be a smooth one and certainly will have it's downs as well as ups.

I always thought that if we gained independence, then initially we would be comparatively worse off, but with FFA, at least we have the mechanisms to choose our own path and identify solutions in a far swifter and more efficient way.

When has anywhere outside London and the Home Counties profited under a Tory government? If I were you up there I would be keeping quiet for the next 5 years and hoping Labour get in in 2020.

You really don't want to go down the road of cutting subsidies from rUK under Cameron. You'll get all the pain of the cuts and none of the gain of regeneration. The SNP immediately won't have the money to develop anything and all the Tories will do is rub their hands together and gloat while Scotland struggles.

Froggitt

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Clapton,
Try thinking fairly for a moment

I pay far more council tax in Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire than my sister in law in Putney.

Why? because I understand that economies of scale mean it is more efficient in an area where demographically there is a denser population.

Thus I pay more to get a similar service from my council i.e. refuse collection etc

Are you sure? Suppose you both live in the same type of Barratt 4 bed house.......yours in 1991 values is worth say £80k, hers was worth £300k. Yours in in say band B, hers in say band F. She will be paying a lot more than you.


Its actually very unfair that you are paying less than her for the same house.

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

When has anywhere outside London and the Home Counties profited under a Tory government? If I were you up there I would be keeping quiet for the next 5 years and hoping Labour get in in 2020.

You really don't want to go down the road of cutting subsidies from rUK under Cameron. You'll get all the pain of the cuts and none of the gain of regeneration. The SNP immediately won't have the money to develop anything and all the Tories will do is rub their hands together and gloat while Scotland struggles.

Do you include the massive subsidy that the SE and London in particular provides to the rest of the UK? In London it's harder to find a house than a job.

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

Do you include the massive subsidy that the SE and London in particular provides to the rest of the UK? In London it's harder to find a house than a job.

Which is a summation of a problem, not the example of a solution.

Decades after Thatcherism decimated the capability of regions outside the SE to compete economically or politically with her power base in London those regions are still moribund. I don't believe people in Liverpool want hand outs, they want to work (and to have cars and wallets to steal).

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

There is no subsidy from Holyrood



Your correct, I didn't know London subsidized Council Tax, but thanks for bringing that to our attention

Council tax is subsidised in Scotland by Holyrood

Councils (not just London) are subsidised in England by the government

do try to learn something about Scotland

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Which is a summation of a problem, not the example of a solution.

Decades after Thatcherism decimated the capability of regions outside the SE to compete economically or politically with her power base in London those regions are still moribund. I don't believe people in Liverpool want hand outs, they want to work (and to have cars and wallets to steal).

Not true. Thatcher's Government removed the subsidies to loss making, nationalised manufacturing firms. This was a continuation of the policies introduced by the previous Labour Government, including monetarism.

The Northern regions have had vast amounts of money thrown at them and remained (comparatively) moribund.

IMHO the solution to the problems of Northern England, Wales and NI are Docklands-style policies in limited areas, especially in the very poorest areas.

The Docklands faced most of the same problems as Liverpool. Docklands is now rich but Liverpool isn't. The failure isn't one of policy it's failing to recognise just how successful it was and could be for other places.

IveSeenTheLight

Froggitt wrote: »

Are you sure? Suppose you both live in the same type of Barratt 4 bed house.......yours in 1991 values is worth say £80k, hers was worth £300k. Yours in in say band B, hers in say band F. She will be paying a lot more than you.


Its actually very unfair that you are paying less than her for the same house.

I of course was comparing band for band. Why would you compare band F with band B. Apples and Oranges

The bands are attributable to the value of the property as at 1991.

Meaning that while the actual property of both properties vary, they would effectively end up in the same band for their respective areas. (Although I concede there may be some minor fluctuations.)

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

Council tax is subsidised in Scotland by Holyrood

Councils (not just London) are subsidised in England by the government

Which just exacerbates the problem.

Why should the people of Putney get a subsidy that almost halves the council tax of those in Aberdeen?

Council tax is based on property value, yet a home in Band H in Putney (£1409), may be vastly higher in value, yet pay almost half the equivalent band H in Aberdeen (£2460).

I think I'll go and have a look at the water and waste rates for Putney which also appear to be lower although hard to confirm as they are calculated on an RV rate.

Generali

Just to be clear, and I've said this before I think, I want the poor to get richer more than any other home Government policy.

I honestly believe that a lite form of libertarianism can deliver this in the best way.