2 VCS PCNs from JLA Liverpool Airport

CorrieOrrie

Hi all

Sorry if I'm being annoying! I've read the newbie thread and the JLA/VCS specific threads but I a bit unsure which is the right template to use when appealing to VCS for a PCN from John Lennon Airport.

I have received 2 PCNs (one dropping off + one collecting!) but I was not the driver and from reading the forums think I am in with a shout of winning appeal at IAS stage with witness statement evidence. But first I need to appeal to VCS and not sure which template is best for VCS/JLA circumstances.

Should I use the one in the newbie thread? Or is the one Biff1666 posted recently more appropriate:

"Dear Sirs

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE – XXXXXXXXXX
JOHN LENNON AIRPORT - VEHICLE REGISTRATION XXXXXX

As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- If alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- If alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment. By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours
Mr XXXXXXXX"

I need to appeal by 23 December 2014 in order to be within 14 day period. Thanks for your help in advance!

Coupon-mad

You have at least 21 days to appeal (the 14 days is irrelevant as you won't be paying - discount or not). That template will do for now.

hoohoo

Also add.

The land is not relavant land under the definition of POFA as byelaws apply. Keeper liability therefore does not apply. I was not the driver and am therefore not liable.

Consider changing the signae to.


The signage contains to much text to be read from a moving vehicle. DFT signage guidelines state only 6 words can be read from a moving vehicle. No contract can therefore exist as the driver cannot enter a contract until they have had a chance to read it all.

CorrieOrrie

Hello,

So I sent my representations to VCS. Got a rejection letter as expected. Similarly to Toilet Duck in another thread I found it noteworthy that the 2nd para states:

"Please note that we are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the dates in question unless you are able to prove the contrary."

I was not the driver on either occasion. On the first date I was in work and have got a colleague to sign a witness statement confirming that. On the second date, however, it is a bit trickier I was a passenger in the car - but I have got my mum (the person being collected from the airport) to sign a witness statement confirming that it was her daughter's boyfriend who collected her from the airport and that I was not driving.

My question is: do you think it worth sending the witness statements to VCS before appealing to IAS to see if they will drop it without having to go through the IAS appeal faff? or should I just appeal to IAS and provide the witness statements (together with copy both sides of the NTKs) as unlikely VCS will drop it?

Thanks

The_Deep

So, they are calling you a liar. If I was in your position I would break off all contact and see if they have the cojones to call you a liar in front of a judge.

At that point you can ask the judge to award you your full costs, (taxis, solicitor, new suit, haircut, cost of witness statements, etc.), because of their unreasonable assumption that you were the driver.

bod1467

They can make any assumptions* they like ... if it got to court they'd need to prove those assumptions. And since they wouldn't be able to then there would be no liability for the registered keeper, since they are not using POFA anyway - they can only pursue the driver, and the keeper has no liability to name the driver.

* They got that wording from the IAS appeals body, by the way.

CorrieOrrie

Hi

Thought I would provide an update....I appealed to the IAS attaching copy byelaws, witness statements confirming I wasn't driving, scan of both sides of the NTKs. However, unsurprisingly my appeal was rejected.

Got a "notice of intended court proceedings" a couple of days ago with bluff language of "we may commence court proceedings" etc

I am aware it is not a Letter Before Claim and my intention is to simply ignore it. If I get anything official I will let you all know!

Thanks!

enfield_freddy

look nice in court , vcs pay jla £25k a year for the privilege of writing tickets for parking , umm , you were not parked YOU STOPPED , claiming the roads come under POFA when in fact they come under airport bylaws , etc etc , etc

hoohoo

Would be interesting to see the IAS rejections. Do they say they do not believe your witness statement, or just duck the issue?

Parking-Prankster

More than interested in helping out if you ever get a real letter before claim or court claim.

I presume this is a bluff, but I seem to remember vcs did do court at an airport once before. From memory it was a car which broke down and it went something like this.

Judge. If you knew the car had broken down, would you have issued a charge?
VCS bod. Of course not your honour.
Judge. Well I find the car did break down. Case dismissed.


...but my memory may be playing tricks

enfield_freddy

Parking-Prankster wrote: »

More than interested in helping out if you ever get a real letter before claim or court claim.

I presume this is a bluff, but I seem to remember vcs did do court at an airport once before. From memory it was a car which broke down and it went something like this.

Judge. If you knew the car had broken down, would you have issued a charge?
VCS bod. Of course not your honour.
Judge. Well I find the car did break down. Case dismissed.


...but my memory may be playing tricks

nice one ,,,,,,,,,,


:j:j:j