Spouse NI credits towards pension while overseas?

greenglide

That appears to indicate that the civil service pension administrators (now MyCSP) assume that from age 65 at least part of the annual CS pension increase (reflecting index-linking, and to ensure the Guaranteed Minimum) is delivered by the state pension. So do they abate (reduce, or limit the increase in) your CS pension accordingly?

So from SPa do they split it, like the LGPS do, into a GMP amount and a non - GMP amount and inflation proof them separately so that the limits for GMP inflation by the "private" scheme are implemented and the rest is provided by the state pension?

The state pension inflation proofing of the GMP ends for people who have an SPa after 5/4/2016 (the government claimed that inflation proofing of the GMP wasn't done by them anyway!) but public sector schemes were supposed to meet the cost.

Has anything happened about this yet and the ability for schemes to get the increase in employers NI back by an increase in pension contributions without needing members agreement?

xylophone

There ia a booklet from MYCSP http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/94835/crb-1_sep2014.pdf


Are there any changes at
State pension age?

If your classic pension includes
any service before 1997, you
should note that this will include
a Guaranteed Minimum
Pension (GMP), and special
arrangements apply to the
pensions increase on the GMP.
When you reach State pension
age, some of the increase on
your GMP may be paid with your
State pension rather than with
your Civil Service pension. The
increase in your classic pension
may therefore appear to be less
than a full Consumer Price
Index increase.
If you were in service before 1
April 1980 you will be affected by
National Insurance Modification.

According to http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/14445/pensioners_newsletter_2011.pdf


National Insurance Modification
If you were a classic member your pension may be reduced when you reach
State pension age to take account of basic National Insurance pension. The
rate of your basic pension, that is before any increases are applied, will be
reduced by £1.70 for each year of your reckonable service before 1 April 1980.
The reduced pension is then increased by the full increases since your pension
came into payment.

br1anstorm

I started this thread with questions about my wife's eligibility for state pension. But the discussion has evolved, and opened up other issues related to deferral of my own state pension and how this might affect the pension I get from my (Civil Service) former employers.

Thanks especially to xylophone and kidmugsy, I have been reading up on all the rules. I'm trying not to get confused, but it does seem horribly complex.

I have had no notification on the eve of my 65th birthday from MyCSP (of the kind mentioned by xylophone in post #33 in this thread which he linked to earlier). I am now hoping that if I can ask the right questions, then MyCSP - the administrators of the civil service pension scheme - might be able to provide answers. But the other forum threads about MyCSP's incompetence do not fill me with confidence!

The Cabinet Office and Capita guidance documents appear to suggest that as the civil service scheme was contracted out of SERPS, I should have a GMP because I had service between April 1978 and April 1997 (in total, I was employed continuously from 1973 to 2005). Yet the pension statements I have had for the past 5 years since turning 60 show 'nil' under both the Pre-1988 GMP and Post-1988 GMP headings. So I have asked MyCSP to clarify the position.

Their answer will I hope help me to discover whether, and how, pension increases will be paid after I hit 65 (ie how much of any increase will be added on to my civil service pension, and how much added to my state pension......).

I will then have to find out what impact deferral of my state pension (assuming I choose to defer) will actually have both on the amount of my CS pension and on the eventual amount of my deferred state pension. Deferral results in a 10.4% pa uplift to the state pension anyway: but will I also get any further uplift to the state pension from whatever increase is generated by my GMP entitlement, if I have one?

As if that were not complicated enough, xylophone warns in his post immediately above that under the so-called "NI modification", members of the civil service classic scheme have their civil service pension reduced after state pension age "to take account of the state pension". I'm in the classic scheme. So this implies that my existing civil service pension amount will be cut after my 65th birthday anyway - whether or not I actually start claiming my state pension!

So thus far, (i) I don't know whether I am entitled to any GMP-related increase in either my civil service or state pension; (ii) I don't know whether deferral of the latter will have any effect on the former; but in any case (iii) I will almost certainly have my civil service pension reduced whatever choice I make on state-pension deferral. Not exactly a cheerful picture....

I have written to MyCSP asking specific questions about my situation and entitlement. I hope I get clear answers. But meanwhile if any forum experts are inclined to offer comments, I'd be interested to see them.

xylophone

Not Civil Service Scheme but does explain the NIM.
https://www.atl.org.uk/Images/PF8%20-%202011.pdf

The TPS is similar to CSP in respect of GMP increases - their pensioners are advised

"If you defer your state pension
please inform us as this may
affect the increases applied to
your pension."

It would be rather surprising if you do not have a GMP - have you received a state pension statement?

br1anstorm

Thanks again, xylophone. That ATL document about the NI modification does suggest that the teachers' scheme is like the civil service scheme. In essence it appears to suggest - if I read it right - that because the original "modification" decision resulted in those who were in service before 1980 paying a reduced NI contributions while working, your occupational pension is then reduced (by £1.70) for each year of service during which you paid those reduced NI contributions.

That ATL guidance also says, "If you retire before state pension age, the actual deduction from your pension will be greater than the amount originally shown on your notification of pension benefits." [my underlining - I can't find any reference to NI modification or deduction in the pension notification I got from the Cabinet Office/Civil Service at age 60].

So has my CS pension - which I started receiving at age 60 - already had the £1.70 (or more) per year of service taken off it from the outset? Or does this NI modification/reduction only get applied once you hit 65 (as the Cabinet Office guidance I quoted says). I'm struggling to see the logic, or the connection with the state pension - if indeed there is a link.

As for GMP, I too am surprised that I do not appear to have this, since I appear to qualify in terms of service during the specified period.

The state pension "statement" which I got (in mid-December) is an estimate, based on my NI contributions. It says I will only get an accurate statement when I actually claim my state pension. The estimate is based on the number of qualifying years (I have 42). It looks to be a 'generic' calculation derived from my NI record and has no regard for my civil service occupational pension position.

The estimate does says that "....some people also get the additional State Pension also known as SERPS, and Graduated Retirement Benefit....". It says an estimate of my additional State Pension based on my NI record is £1.71 per week. But it goes on to say, "The amount of your additional State Pension could be lower...especially if you were contracted out of the additional State Pension any time between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997" .

Since we know that the CS scheme was contracted out of SERPS, I take this to mean that in fact I will not get that estimated extra £1.71 per week on my state pension.

But the DWP estimate of my state pension says nothing about GMP; and it says nothing, either, about my having paid modified or reduced NI contributions for any period prior to 1980.

So I remain puzzled. I seem to be entitled to a GMP, but there is no mention of it. My occupational CS pension may have been - or may soon be - reduced because of the "NI modification" but it's not clear when. And there is still no clear explanation of whether, and how, and to which of the two pensions (CS or state) any increases driven by GMP will be applied.

This is not an area into which I have previously delved very far. But it seems the more you dig down the less light there is!

kidmugsy

I can't help you with the Civil Service pension, but I can tell you about my own Final Salary pension.

(i) While my SRP is deferred, I get a pay rise from my FS scheme. This is something to do with contracted-in/contracted-out/shake-it-all-about: by which I mean that it seems to turn on my having transferred a contracted-in pension into my contracted-out FS scheme decades ago.
(ii) And, while my SRP is deferred, my FS pension gets its full index-linking (CPI in my case) whereas while the SRP was in payment my FS pension got only partial index-linking, with their cheerful assurance that my SRP would give me the missing bit.

These things make my head spin. Anyway, the two of them seem to make deferral by me An Awfully Good Idea.

greenglide

There is some "non-standard" relationship between state pension and "public sector" pension schemes.

When the real-time pensions Forecast system when live around 10 years ago one of the questions it asked was "have you ever been part of a public sector pension scheme". If you said yes (or it found evidence of it in the data it retrieved) it was unable to produce the forecast online and it was shunted off to the batch system for it to deal with.

I have never understood what the "special" thing is about their scheme. Is it that the GMP was originally to be totally the responsibility of the pension scheme? I assume that whatever it was no longer applies?

xylophone

Did you have a look at the example on the ATL fact sheet?

A male teacher retired, having received premature
retirement on 31 August 1999, aged 56. His
pension upon retirement was £12,753.45. He was
informed that as from 21 May 2006 (the date of his
65th birthday) his pension would be reduced by
£39.39 per annum on account of NI modification.
Since retirement, his pension has been increased
by 28.35% to £16,369.05 to take account of
inflation. The amount of modification (£39.39) is
deducted from his original pension of £12,753.45
leaving £12,714.06. This new figure is increased
by 28.35% to take account of inflation giving a
new pension of £16,318.50 from age 65.
Therefore, the reduction in his annual pension is
£50.55, i.e. £39.39 increased by 28.35%.

Take your own pension at retirement and work from there? Remember that the above calculation relates to your scheme pension and happens at state pension age.

Since you retired, the whole of your pension has been increased by the Scheme.

When you reach state pension age, your scheme should advise you of how your pension is split between pre 88 GMP, post 88 GMP and the excess.

The fact that your AP is so tiny indicates that you were contracted out.

The GMP is the Contracted Out Deduction that will be shown on your State Pension Statement.

See post 18 of post below.



https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/60319901#Comment_60319901


See also Post 5 of https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67495877#Comment_67495877

If you defer your state pension, then presumably the Scheme will continue to pick up the increase on the whole pension? Which is what is implied by

"If you defer your state pension
please inform us as this may
affect the increases applied to
your pension."

in the TPS advice to members?

br1anstorm

One thing is for sure -whatever the pension rules say, the system ain't simple.

I just have to hope that whenever I get a reply from MyCSP to the questions I put to them about my individual circumstances, it will provide full and proper explanation.

kidmugsy

xylophone wrote: »

If you defer your state pension, then presumably the Scheme will continue to pick up the increase on the whole pension?

That's what's happening to me at the moment. Is it a permanent gain, or will it somehow be clawed back by either my FS pension or my SRP when I restart my SRP? (It has not escaped my notice that the beggars can't claw it back if I defer unto death.)