Employment Law Solicitor

Another_not_new_user

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Ok Another. Does this then mean that a civil service worker, such as a ACAS helpine advisor falls outwith conventional UK employment protection rights ?

That would be why I said "many" and not "all", and stated specific example of civil service areas which I know, at least in parts, use Crown Servant contracts. I haven't seen an ACAS advisors contract, so I didn't comment on that. When I have I'll let you know.

The OP does not actually know either way, and the majority of solcitors wouldn't even realise this - they will assume that all or employees because they have no reason to know otherwise. The description of the process being used is certainly one that I am familiar with and know has been applied to Crown Servants. But I cannot say with any certainty whether it is also applied to others. Which is why I have said that the union are the people to know most about civil service terms of employment. It would be foolish to alienate one's union representation for the sake of talking to a lawyer who may not have a clue what they are dealing with.

And to be honest, I don't know what else could be expected of the union thus far. Whether one agrees or not, the employer says there is a case to answer, and the unions role is limited to accompanying someone to the disciplinary meeting. They certainly cannot speak for them. They can help clarify what someone is saying. But this is not a role to represent or speak for. That is up to the person being disciplined to do. It is only past the stage of discipline and appeal that union legal resources are consulted and deployed where appropriate.

PHILANTHROPIST

Agree for the main part w/ ANNU.

FYI ACAS fall in to the 90% or so of civil service staff who are employees who can take a claim to an ET. Likes of the Police are obvious exceptions, but even then they have I understand a parallel so called disciplinary appeals process.

Re Union reps role in a hearing. Yes, in theory they are meant to be a mere observer and clarifier, but a good one steps in and represents albeit often much to the chagrin of the employer. That's my experience anyhow.

Phil

Another_not_new_user

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Agree for the main part w/ ANNU.

FYI ACAS fall in to the 90% or so of civil service staff who are employees who can take a claim to an ET. Likes of the Police are obvious exceptions, but even then they have I understand a parallel so called disciplinary appeals process.

Re Union reps role in a hearing. Yes, in theory they are meant to be a mere observer and clarifier, but a good one steps in and represents albeit often much to the chagrin of the employer. That's my experience anyhow.

Phil

Yes, they might. It neither makes them "good", nor does it make them listened to. A good union rep knows strategy. They do not !!!! off the employer, because they are not annoying the employer at them - they are annoying the employer at their member.


I am interested in your statistic about 90% of civil service staff being employees. Can you please reference this statistic? Because it isn't my experience of actually representing civil service employees, and I would be very interested to know if this has changed much since I retired.