Train revenue protection officers - jurisdiction

JReacher1

I was randomly walking through Manchester when four guys approached me. I thought I was in for a kicking but it turned out they were northern rail revenue protection officers and they had been following me for the last 5 minutes.

I had a train ticket of course (I'm not scum) but after they had gone I was wondering what would have happened if I didn't have a ticket? I was at least 500 metres from the train station just on a main street. Could they actually have done anything?

agrinnall

I don't know, but did they give any explanation for why they followed you rather than stopping you at the station (when their jurisdiction would have been a lot less open to doubt)?

JReacher1

agrinnall wrote: »

I don't know, but did they give any explanation for why they followed you rather than stopping you at the station (when their jurisdiction would have been a lot less open to doubt)?

I suspect it was my fault as I was listening to music. I think they may have been behind me yelling for a while but I hadn't heard them. To be honest at first I thought they were big issue sellers so I told them I didn't want to buy one.

I can't help but feel a better policy would be to have someone at the door checking for tickets as opposed to randomly following people.

dzug1

JReacher1 wrote: »

I suspect it was my fault as I was listening to music. I think they may have been behind me yelling for a while but I hadn't heard them. To be honest at first I thought they were big issue sellers so I told them I didn't want to buy one.

I can't help but feel a better policy would be to have someone at the door checking for tickets as opposed to randomly following people.

Maybe they were 'at the door' and you were too engrossed to notice them.


Whether they actually have any jurisdiction - pass

JReacher1

dzug1 wrote: »

Maybe they were 'at the door' and you were too engrossed to notice them.


Whether they actually have any jurisdiction - pass

Nah they were in normal clothes (undercover) and definitely weren't checking for tickets on the way out.

TheBanker

Where exactly where you? There is no doubt that they have jurisdiction on the railway's land which is more than just the station building. I think at Pic, the slope outside the station where the shops are forms part of the railway station.

JReacher1

TheBanker wrote: »

Where exactly where you? There is no doubt that they have jurisdiction on the railway's land which is more than just the station building. I think at Pic, the slope outside the station where the shops are forms part of the railway station.

I had come out of Victoria station and walked up the road past the printworks. I was about 25 metres from the shudehill metro station.

antrobus

JReacher1 wrote: »

....Could they actually have done anything?

Ah, the good old Regulation of Railways Act 1889.:)

Section 5(1) requires every "passenger by a railway" to either show your ticket, pay your fare, or provide your name and address "on request by an officer or servant of a railway company", and section 5(2) gives said office or servant the power to detain you until you "can be conveniently brought before some justice" if you fail to comply.

Therefore I'd say that, as long as these revenue protection officers could demonstrate that you were indeed a "passenger by a railway" - as in they had seen you get off a train and had been following you - then had you not had a ticket, they could have demanded that you provide them with your name and address, and arrested you if you declined to do so.

Just my opinion of course.:)

zagfles

antrobus wrote: »

Ah, the good old Regulation of Railways Act 1889.:)

Section 5(1) requires every "passenger by a railway" to either show your ticket, pay your fare, or provide your name and address "on request by an officer or servant of a railway company", and section 5(2) gives said office or servant the power to detain you until you "can be conveniently brought before some justice" if you fail to comply.

Therefore I'd say that, as long as these revenue protection officers could demonstrate that you were indeed a "passenger by a railway" - as in they had seen you get off a train and had been following you - then had you not had a ticket, they could have demanded that you provide them with your name and address, and arrested you if you declined to do so.

Just my opinion of course.:)

Does that mean you can't chuck your ticket in a bin once you've left the station?

JReacher1

zagfles wrote: »

Does that mean you can't chuck your ticket in a bin once you've left the station?

Sounds like antrobus is saying you have to keep hold of your ticket forever in case you are randomly checked to see if you have one!

In my experience NR say please retain your ticket until you leave the station therefore I think it's dodgy to ask to see your ticket when you are not in a station.

Stigy

It's a very grey area. Of course one can throw their ticket away once off station property, that's just common sense. They'd have jurisdiction if they believed an offence had been committed on the railway and the suspect had now left, such as in this case. Re te throwing away of said ticket, if staff were following, they'd be in a good position to see if the suspect did actually throw their ticket away on exiting the station. It's a whole different ball game if things turn sour and said suspect kicks off for example! The staff have a lot more protection of things kick off on their own property!