Energy meters on neighbor's land

l_whitehead94

Firstly, a little background about the house. I live in a student house with 6 other housemates. We moved into this house in August 2014 to start our second year at university. We are all aged 19-20 and lived in halls last year, so this is our first time being in control of our own house and bills. At first, we settled in nicely but hadn't yet properly met the neighbors. It's a small group of 5 houses with an entrance courtyard, but all with their own private gates.

Our electricity meter is a Scottish Power Pre-payment meter, which means we need to top it up with credit before we can use the electricity. The meter is located in the neighbors garden, but still attached to our house on the outside wall. The gas meter is also next to it. The first time we went around to top the meter up, the neighbor (who is a recently widowed mother of 2) was very friendly and keen to ask about the house and who was living there. We chatted for a good hour then left. A few days later we got a visit from the council, who came in and told us that the house was not a student property and that 2 neighbors had complained about us being there. We had rented the house through a reputable student letting agency and had no knowledge that planning permission for the house was never even applied for. For this reason, the neighbors are not happy about any of us at all, even though we don't disturb them in any way. The next time we went over to top up the electricity (around 2 weeks later), the neighbour gave my housemate an earful about how she doesn't like us going over and how we arent even supposed to be living there. We topped up the electricity then left.

We had previously enquired with Scottish Power about changing the meter to one we dont have to continually top up, but were told that there wasn't even any record we had a prepayment meter and had outstanding bills for estimated readings. They said that without details of the meter serial number, we couldnt sort out getting a new meter. To get the meter details, we would have to again go and ask the neighbor to go into her garden. We left it around 3 more weeks before we needed to top up again, with the intentions of getting every little detail about the meter on this visit. On this visit, the neighbor said we were going over too frequently and she's not going to let us around again so we need to sort something else out. After she had screeched at my housemate (who was in tears at this point) for a good 10 minutes about how she wants us to leave and how "she's the last person we want to get on the wrong side of", she let us top up the meter again and take pictures of serial numbers. After this encounter, we have had nothing further to do with this neighbor. The next time we needed to top up the meter, we all went out at 3am and lifted a fence panel to sneak under (not something we wanted to have to do).

I rang scottish power and explained the situation. They said that it will take up to 3 weeks for our current meter to be registered at the property, before we could apply for a new one. This was around 2 and a half weeks ago, and we will need to top up again in the next 2 days to keep the electricity running.

Firstly where do we stand with regards to topping up our own meter which is on neighbors land? Is she allowed to deny us access?
Secondly, we recently got a text from her telling us to explain how the meter credit was £80 higher than last week, which shows she has been opening the meter up and checking it. Is she allowed to? (We ignored the text)

Anything we do that is slightly wrong around here is met with some sort of attack. We stopped on the road outside our house to unload shopping and was told rather rudely by another neighbor to move it now so they could get their horse box out (the horse box didn't move for 4 days after this). There are many other subtle attacks like this that we have experienced purely because they don't like us being students.

Thanks in advance for any replies, we could do with as much help as we can get!

Andy_WSM

I know not about trespass laws, so will leave that the wisdom (?) of the other forum members.

However; have you raised a complaint with the letting agent? It sounds to me like you have been housed illegally.

[Deleted User]

I know of houses where the meters are actually in the neighbours house. I saw one 2 weeks ago and the access to the meters was in the terms of the lease. It does cause problems though because another one was in dispute stopping the upstairs tenant from accessing her meter in the cellar without his permission

Cardew

It seems like the neighbours have formed a group to make your stay as unpleasant as possible and hope you will move out soon. To a certain extent it is understandable as seven 19/20 year old students can be noisy parties etc and are not everyone's idea of ideal neighbours.(not that it is anything against you)


I cannot understand how the council got involved. What do they mean by 'not a student property'? As long as the house is privately owned, and not overcrowded, you are entitled to live there.


You really need to get the letting agency and owner involved about access to the meter. Normally you have no right on a neighbour's property, but in cases like this there is often an easement in the property deeds to allow access to meters; the position would be exactly the same for the owner and meter reader if the neighbour objected.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

No expert on this area, but I think the only regulations surrounding private rentals that would be pertinent here is that the house must be registered as an HMO. Landlords are obliged to perform certain obligations

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/about_private_renting/houses_in_multiple_occupation

However, I think they can let the property to whomever they choose. I've never heard of students "not being allowed" to rent a property.

The trespass situation is...awkward. Trespass is a complex area of tort law, and trespass to land generally isn't a criminal offence - a lawyer friend once told me that all the signs that read "Trespassers will be prosecuted" should actually read "Trespassers will be sued".

You need to get SP to sort the meter issue out pronto - if they don't know you have a PPM that's worrying. Complain via social media if the usual channels get you nowhere. Good luck!

footyguy

l_whitehead94 wrote: »

Firstly, a little background about the house. I live in a student house with 6 other housemates. We moved into this house in August 2014 to start our second year at university. We are all aged 19-20 and lived in halls last year, so this is our first time being in control of our own house and bills. At first, we settled in nicely but hadn't yet properly met the neighbors. It's a small group of 5 houses with an entrance courtyard, but all with their own private gates.

Our electricity meter is a Scottish Power Pre-payment meter, which means we need to top it up with credit before we can use the electricity. The meter is located in the neighbors garden, but still attached to our house on the outside wall. The gas meter is also next to it. The first time we went around to top the meter up, the neighbor (who is a recently widowed mother of 2) was very friendly and keen to ask about the house and who was living there. We chatted for a good hour then left. A few days later we got a visit from the council, who came in and told us that the house was not a student property and that 2 neighbors had complained about us being there. We had rented the house through a reputable student letting agency and had no knowledge that planning permission for the house was never even applied for. For this reason, the neighbors are not happy about any of us at all, even though we don't disturb them in any way. The next time we went over to top up the electricity (around 2 weeks later), the neighbour gave my housemate an earful about how she doesn't like us going over and how we arent even supposed to be living there. We topped up the electricity then left.

We had previously enquired with Scottish Power about changing the meter to one we dont have to continually top up, but were told that there wasn't even any record we had a prepayment meter and had outstanding bills for estimated readings. They said that without details of the meter serial number, we couldnt sort out getting a new meter. To get the meter details, we would have to again go and ask the neighbor to go into her garden. We left it around 3 more weeks before we needed to top up again, with the intentions of getting every little detail about the meter on this visit. On this visit, the neighbor said we were going over too frequently and she's not going to let us around again so we need to sort something else out. After she had screeched at my housemate (who was in tears at this point) for a good 10 minutes about how she wants us to leave and how "she's the last person we want to get on the wrong side of", she let us top up the meter again and take pictures of serial numbers. After this encounter, we have had nothing further to do with this neighbor. The next time we needed to top up the meter, we all went out at 3am and lifted a fence panel to sneak under (not something we wanted to have to do).

I rang scottish power and explained the situation. They said that it will take up to 3 weeks for our current meter to be registered at the property, before we could apply for a new one. This was around 2 and a half weeks ago, and we will need to top up again in the next 2 days to keep the electricity running.

Firstly where do we stand with regards to topping up our own meter which is on neighbors land? Is she allowed to deny us access?
Secondly, we recently got a text from her telling us to explain how the meter credit was £80 higher than last week, which shows she has been opening the meter up and checking it. Is she allowed to? (We ignored the text)

Anything we do that is slightly wrong around here is met with some sort of attack. We stopped on the road outside our house to unload shopping and was told rather rudely by another neighbor to move it now so they could get their horse box out (the horse box didn't move for 4 days after this). There are many other subtle attacks like this that we have experienced purely because they don't like us being students.

Thanks in advance for any replies, we could do with as much help as we can get!

Have you spoken to your University housing officer?

Especially if, as you claim you "rented the house through a reputable student letting agency" yet the council have since said "the house was not a student property and that 2 neighbors had complained about us being there."

What exactly is a "student property" as defined by your council anyway???

Did you and/or some of your 6 housemates not view the property before agreeing to rent it, both to see the lie of the land and chew the cud with the existing tenants (if any - if not any existing tenants, did you/they ask why not?)

Armorica

It's not unheard of for students not to view in advance or see the previous tenants (due to often being empty over the summer etc.)

The whole situation seems very surreal. Apparently the 'permission to let to students' is a local thing - who is the council for the area you live in?

You may also want to speak to the local neighbourhood police team to seek their opinion on rights of access. I do wonder as well whether your energy provider could seek access to the neighbour's land.

If you haven't already, you should speak to the letting agency setting out the problems you're having. If they are good, they may be help one way or another, or at least not let it again next year.

naedanger

l_whitehead94 wrote: »

Firstly, a little background about the house. I live in a student house with 6 other housemates. We moved into this house in August 2014 to start our second year at university. We are all aged 19-20 and lived in halls last year, so this is our first time being in control of our own house and bills. At first, we settled in nicely but hadn't yet properly met the neighbors. It's a small group of 5 houses with an entrance courtyard, but all with their own private gates.

Our electricity meter is a Scottish Power Pre-payment meter, which means we need to top it up with credit before we can use the electricity. The meter is located in the neighbors garden, but still attached to our house on the outside wall. The gas meter is also next to it. The first time we went around to top the meter up, the neighbor (who is a recently widowed mother of 2) was very friendly and keen to ask about the house and who was living there. We chatted for a good hour then left. A few days later we got a visit from the council, who came in and told us that the house was not a student property and that 2 neighbors had complained about us being there. We had rented the house through a reputable student letting agency and had no knowledge that planning permission for the house was never even applied for. For this reason, the neighbors are not happy about any of us at all, even though we don't disturb them in any way. The next time we went over to top up the electricity (around 2 weeks later), the neighbour gave my housemate an earful about how she doesn't like us going over and how we arent even supposed to be living there. We topped up the electricity then left.

We had previously enquired with Scottish Power about changing the meter to one we dont have to continually top up, but were told that there wasn't even any record we had a prepayment meter and had outstanding bills for estimated readings. They said that without details of the meter serial number, we couldnt sort out getting a new meter. To get the meter details, we would have to again go and ask the neighbor to go into her garden. We left it around 3 more weeks before we needed to top up again, with the intentions of getting every little detail about the meter on this visit. On this visit, the neighbor said we were going over too frequently and she's not going to let us around again so we need to sort something else out. After she had screeched at my housemate (who was in tears at this point) for a good 10 minutes about how she wants us to leave and how "she's the last person we want to get on the wrong side of", she let us top up the meter again and take pictures of serial numbers. After this encounter, we have had nothing further to do with this neighbor. The next time we needed to top up the meter, we all went out at 3am and lifted a fence panel to sneak under (not something we wanted to have to do).

I rang scottish power and explained the situation. They said that it will take up to 3 weeks for our current meter to be registered at the property, before we could apply for a new one. This was around 2 and a half weeks ago, and we will need to top up again in the next 2 days to keep the electricity running.

Firstly where do we stand with regards to topping up our own meter which is on neighbors land? Is she allowed to deny us access?
Secondly, we recently got a text from her telling us to explain how the meter credit was £80 higher than last week, which shows she has been opening the meter up and checking it. Is she allowed to? (We ignored the text)

Anything we do that is slightly wrong around here is met with some sort of attack. We stopped on the road outside our house to unload shopping and was told rather rudely by another neighbor to move it now so they could get their horse box out (the horse box didn't move for 4 days after this). There are many other subtle attacks like this that we have experienced purely because they don't like us being students.

Thanks in advance for any replies, we could do with as much help as we can get!

I agree with the suggestion of speaking to your university's accommodation office.

I can't imagine any of the occupants are in the wrong even if the house is not licenced for multiple occupants or students. If there is a problem it will most likely be the landlord at fault.

You have no alternative to topping up your meter, so just ensure enough of you go to have sufficient moral support and give as good as you get verbally until you find out the longer term solution. At least there are seven of you in the same position.

l_whitehead94

Thanks to everyone for the replies! I didn't expect so many of them so soon but they have really helped. I will add a little more background into the house plus a few clarifications.

We viewed the house in December 2013 when it was a standard 5 bedroom property (not a student property). We were told it was being converted into a student house with 8 bedrooms as the landlord was moving abroad. We signed for the house with 8 of us in December so we could secure it. (We met both the letting agent and the landlord and they both had the same moving abroad story).

Roll forward to August 2014 when some interesting details came to light. The property had been barely worked on over summer and hadn't been cleaned at all. Lockable doors had only just been put on the rooms the week before, and we hadn't seen the landlord since December. Turns out the landlord hadn't moved abroad at all. Instead he moved to a lovely prison cell for about 10 years or so for using the house to cultivate cannabis, and had been on tag the whole time we were looking around. Obviously we knew none of this until one of the neighbors told us which, was promptly backed up by every taxi driver in the county who will always drop the line "Oh is this your house? I used to know your landlord."

There are no issues with the house other than the electricity meter, but we won't be living here next year anyway.

The issue the council had was its conversion into a student property, which you apparently need permission for.

I will just reply to everyone's comments in this post to make it easier:

@Andy_WSM - We have raised it with the letting agent but as far as they are concerned, the house is fine and we have no need to worry. (We still worry despite this)

@sacsquacco - I think I read over that one while scouring the internet for support. If it was in the neighbors house we would have a real mess on our hands, but with it being outside we can always just go under the fence if we have issues.

@Cardew - The neighbors are all close friends, so I can understand their concern at new neighbors being a group of 7 students. One housemate who moved out a few weeks ago decided to have a huge party in our absence before he left, so we were left with the blame and complaints from all the neighbors who wanted an explanation. It is privately owned but the council had issues with it being converted to student property. The neighbor has previously got out the deeds to dispute parking on what she thought was her land (turns out it belongs to all 5 houses). I will have a look at this to see if it says anything about the meters, so thanks for the suggestion.

@Blubirdman - I think that is the regulation the neighbors and council raised with us. My guess is that it isn't registered at all, hence the council involvement. We were sketchy about the trespassing situation. Obviously it's not something we wanted to do but the only other option was to live without electricity. So long as we don't cause any damage or leave any sign that we've been there, we will have to continue to do this. I'm giving Scottish Power the next 4 days (they said it could take up to 21 days to sort and we are on day 17) to sort this out before I contact them again.

@footyguy - I have cleared up some more details above regarding your questions, but the housing officer seems like a good option so I will see if they can help.

@Armorica - Again I have cleared up some of your questions above. We are in Lancaster so I think the council is just Lancaster City Council. The energy provider just stalls when we mention that the meter is on neighbors land, and they never really give a proper response as to what they can do about it other than move the meter (at a cost to us).

@naedanger - We would go in a group in future for moral support but since the last interaction ended in a public shouting match, we aren't going over there at all anymore. We still respect our neighbors despite them hating us, since students have a bad enough name around here already. I don't want her feeling intimidated at us all going over in a group especially given her recent situation.

Thanks again for everyone's replies, I'm relaying them back to the whole house so we know where we stand.

Norman_Castle

If you need her permission again for access explain that you would rather not have to bother her and show details of what you are doing to resolve it. Blame the power company for being slow. If possible record the conversation in case she gets particularly nasty.
Don't be too scared of her. If she is as mean as she thinks she would just say no.
Don't be bullied by the other neigbours. As a group, disliking the students, may be all they have in common

Firstly where do we stand with regards to topping up our own meter which is on neighbors land?

You stand in the garden at 3AM. It avoids your neighbour and messes with her head.

Before this pre payment meter is removed check you are not paying someone elses debt through it.

Farway

Before this pre payment meter is removed check you are not paying someone elses debt through it

Very good advice, especially if the owner was growing cannabis it is very likely the meter was bypassed, and hence the prepay installed