Strange Penalty Fare - any thoughts please???

ricardovich

Hi Everyone

Anyone got any thoughts on this:-

I work on matchdays at a football stadium. I travel 3 stops to the stadium on Southern Trains and have done so for the past 4 years. In all this time, myself and my colleagues have traveled to-and-from the stadium without buying a ticket but by simply showing our staff passes. This has never been queried nor been denied as valid means of travel in the past.

Earlier this month I traveled to the stadium with colleagues as usual. At the stadium station were were denied exit through the barriers and were told our staff passes were "no longer valid for travel" and that we were all to be issued with Penalty Fare Notices (PFN) and a £20 fine. We explained the previous situation but were denied any further passage. We offered to pay the full fare (£5.90), which I believe is our statutory right under the Penalty Fares Rules 2002 section 8 (2)(?) but this option was denied too.

I have appealed to IPFAS on the grounds that I was under the belief that I had a valid authorisation to travel and could show precident over a number of years (and most recently 7 days before the date of issue) that this authorisation had been accepted as such. I had been given no warning that this authorisation would no longer be deemed as valid.

I have received a letter today from IPFAS stating that my appeal has been unsuccessful and that I now owe £40.

There's a paragraph in the letter that reads:-
"Whilst I understand there was no intention to avoid payment of the fare due, because the staff pass produced for inspection is not valid for the journey whatsoever, the penalty fare was issued correctly".

It seems to me that on one hand they are saying they agree I had no intention to avoid payment, however, on the other hand they were correct to issue the fine which is used to penalise people who intentionally avoid payment - !?!?! PS - cough up £40. Grrr

Anyone got any thoughts on this and whether I should/could take it further??

Thanks

Rich

wealdroam

A Penalty Fare is not a fine.

A Penalty Fare is issued when a passenger has made an honest mistake. If there had been any suggestion that this was an attempt at fare avoidance, then the 'penalty' would've been more severe... possibly leading towards prosecution.

Was this Brighton?

Have you any documentation that shows that the staff pass was once acceptable?

You might like to post your query here:

RailUK Forums: Disputes & Prosecutions

Jeff_Bridges_hair

ricardovich wrote: »

It seems to me that on one hand they are saying they agree I had no intention to avoid payment, however, on the other hand they were correct to issue the fine which is used to penalise people who intentionally avoid payment - !?!?! PS - cough up £40. Grrr

No, a penalty fare is given to those who have made a mistake like yourself has and is a quick and reletivley
cheap charge - given the other option would be to too you to court where you would face at least a 3 figure sum as a fine.

What passes did you hold exactly and who issued them?

But yes, go and use the forum wealdroam has podted they will be able to help you but make sure that you tell them the answers to the questions I have asked above. Full details are very important

ricardovich

Thanks chaps. Will post on the rail forum as suggested.

The only pass we traveled on were our football club staff passes. I have no documentation that this was valid, just empirical evidence over the course of 4 years that these passes were accepted as authorisation to travel. Also, I forgot to point out in my previous post, that these passes gained us access to the train through the barriers at our starting station on the day we were stopped at our final destination. I pointed this out to the Penalty Fare issuer who just said "well I don't know what they get up to at that station, do I?".

Taking on board your comments about penalty fares or Fines - it does seem harsh that you get a Paenalty Fare for, as you have said, an honset mistake. Surely there should be some malice aforethought?

wealdroam

ricardovich wrote: »

Taking on board your comments about penalty fares or Fines - it does seem harsh that you get a Paenalty Fare for, as you have said, an honset mistake. Surely there should be some malice aforethought?

As mentioned above, if there were any 'malice aforethought', then a prosecution would've been more likely... resulting in a much more severe penalty.

Have you thought about seeking the support of the football club?
Maybe they had some sort of arrangement with the train company that could be used to help you?

wealdroam

Well... what have Brighton and Hove Albion Football Club got to say about this?

Hedgehog99

Has the train operator franchise just changed? Maybe the new operator doesn't know about / does not wish to continue the passes arrangement? Maybe your starting station is still under another operator so you only got caught at your destination?

agrinnall

If it is Brighton then the Seagulls website says this on it's travel page:

[FONT=&quot]Brighton and Hove Albion FC offer home and away fans free [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]travel on buses and trains within the Free Travel Zone (Details [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]within this document). You can use your match day ticket, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]season ticket, or proof of match day ticket purchase to use [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]most services between 11:30am and 9pm for a 3pm kick off and [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]between 4:15pm and midnight for a 7:45pm kick off. Free travel [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]services for other kick off times will vary accordingly. Details of [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the bus and rail services that can be used for home matches [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]at the stadium free of direct charge are listed below. Please [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]note: Free travel is inclusive for all home league matches. Free [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]services may also be offered for friendly or Cup matches, but [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]please check club information when purchasing your ticket.[/FONT]

http://www.seagulls.co.uk/documents/travel-guide-sep14229-1915126.pdf

wealdroam

agrinnall wrote: »

If it is Brighton...

Yes, it's Brighton.

The OP has started a thread on RailUKforums.