Chased for 24 year old poll tax arrears

mpwa01

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can help\advise me. In December 2012 Liverpool City Council sent me a bill for unpaid poll tax (community charge) from 1990. I remember that in 1990, I went to a solicitor, whom worked out exactly how much I owed. I contacted the solicitors in question, in 2012, but they said that they would never keep records longer than 6 years, let alone 22 years, and no longer deal in this area. I also went to the CAB whom, had no idea what to do, as they had never encountered a case like this before. I therefore ignored the letter, thinking it was a mistake, which it clearly was.

However last week (Oct 2014), 24 years after the supposed arrears were owned, I received a final demand letter from a debt recovery firm called newlyn, whom are threatening to send debt recovery agents to my house. I contacted a friend, and did some research and found on the nationaldebtline.org, that the council only have 6 years to get a liability order, through a magistrates, for council tax arrears, which obviously the council don't have.

Has anyone had any experiences like this at all? Or can anyone advise on what the correct letter is to send, as I don't want to accidentally acknowledge the debt.

Thanks

National_Debtline

Hi mpwa01

Newlyn are in fact a bailiff firm and not simply a plain old debt collection agency, meaning that Liverpool CC are very likely to have obtained a Liability Order for this debt. Whether they did so within 6 years of the arrears accruing remains to be determined.

Can you perhaps quote directly from the Newlyn letter, as opposed to paraphrasing it? It will help us to establish in what capacity Newlyn are acting here i.e. as bailiffs (in which case they could potentially try to seize goods) or plain old debt collectors (in which case they could not).

Thanks

Dennis
@natdebtline

mpwa01

Hi Dennis,

I have two letters. The first sent on the 15/10/14 is addressed to the "occupier", it has on it in big letters "DO NOT IGNORE THE LETTER"

It then says:
Dear Sir / Madam,
RE: Liverpool City Council
We are acting on behalf of the above client and nee to contact

"my name"

we should be most grateful if you would be kind enough to provide us with a forwarding address for the person, together with an appropriate date that this person vacated the premises, and the solicitors dealing with the sale/purchase, if known.

we thank you in advance for your cooperation and look forward to hearing from you at your convenience.

signed "newlyn debt collection ltd"

#############################

a letter dated 22/10/14 arrived stating in big letters "FINAL DEMAND"

We are disappointed to note that despite previous reminders, the above debt remains outstanding. Our debt recovery officers have been passed your file in preparation for further action. to avoid this action please make immediate payment to our office. if payment is not made immediately, our officers call without further notice.

signed "newlyn debt collection ltd"

#############################

There is no mention of the word bailiff anywhere in either letter.

Thanks

CIS

I contacted a friend, and did some research and found on the nationaldebtline.org, that the council only have 6 years to get a liability order, through a magistrates, for council tax arrears, which obviously the council don't have.

This isn't council tax though so looking at council tax regulations won't help.

If the council don't have a liability order for the poll tax then they could chase you but they couldn't enforce anything against you if you say no (it used to be a 2 year time limit on obtaining one). Just because a solicitor calculated it for you doesn't mean it was done correctly - I deal with solicitors regularly for council tax and they generally haven't got a clue how it's worked out.

Although Newlyns are enforcement agents (previously known as bailiffs) many of these companies also supply debt collection services in addition to acting as enforcement agents, in this case it appears that they are acting as debt collectors only.

headoutthesand

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-defends-poll-tax-policy-on-radio-show-1-3562078


Not sure if this will apply elsewhere but salmond tells the public about the rules around chasing outstanding poll tax arrears

CIS

headoutthesand wrote: »

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-defends-poll-tax-policy-on-radio-show-1-3562078


Not sure if this will apply elsewhere but salmond tells the public about the rules around chasing outstanding poll tax arrears

Scotland is different to how England deals with poll tax arrears.

FireWyrm

But seriously, what burk issued the demand and started the ball rolling 22 YEARS after the fact...that is some serious paperwork backlog.

The council have 6 years to get a liability order and unless they can prove that they have one, then there is nowt they can possibly do to recover this debt. In any case, even if they had one, they have to enforce THAT within a timelimit for it to be valid or go back and seek permission to continue. By my reckoning, even if they had stuck to the timetable, they have still taken a full decade beyond that to get in touch.

I think a polite letter to the council pointing it out ought to be in order. With a bit of luck, someone with the national braincell will see it for the nonsense it is and squash it, preferably with an abject apology. Failing that, an enquiry with your local MP might also yield some interesting results.

fatbelly

We had a similar issue a few years ago when our council seemingly 'discovered' a load of poll tax debts and started chasing them. We involved a local councillor and eventually they agreed to stop collecting.

They did have liability orders though

Karonher

Liverpool has always continued to chase owed poll tax. This is from the Liverpool Echo in April 2013

"In the last year the council brought in around £300,000 of unpaid poll tax."

If they are managing to get that amount in, they must have a way to do it as I cant imagine people just handing it over. As there is £15 million still owed they will continue to try and get it back.

In 2011 the council decided to be more forceful and in a radio interview said that they did in fact have liability orders. I am not sure what we can and cant link, but having a look at Bailiffs Advice Online it says that the 6 year rule does not apply - there have been some cases as far back as 18 years.

FireWyrm

They still need to comply with the law. They require a liability order obtained within the 6 year time limit.

Karonher

FireWyrm wrote: »

They still need to comply with the law. They require a liability order obtained within the 6 year time limit.

I realise that for council tax but don't know if it is the same for poll tax. Even if it is, they are still getting so much in, it seems that they have certainly got liability orders in a lot of cases. Often the delay has been caused because it was not possible to trace the person owing the money due to a number of house moves.

They chase up all money that is owed, whether it is tax, fines or payments for items damaged during accidents.