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Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.
Comments
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leveller2911 wrote: »Just gone onto the Governments "entitled to " website and punched in the following:
Couple living in the South East UK (not London) with one working 19-24hrs a week on NMW with the other one not working. They have 2 chilren aged 12 and 15, boy and a girl.The household income is £13,520 a year and they pay out £1,371-68p in tax and NI.They rent privately and their benefit entitlement is as follows.
Child Tax and working tax credits £7,075-40 per year
Housing benefit of £5,683-24 per year
Council tax benefit of £620-03 per year (based on £1,440-00 per year full)
Child benefit of £1,770-60 per year
Total Benefit entitlement for the year 2014-15 is £15,149-27
However, for me this isn't just about controlled immigration its about having the power to stop the dregs of the EU from coming here
I agree with the need to means test people coming to the UK from the EU countries, and Baroso has said he also wants to stop benefit tourism.
However, please can somebody cross check Levellers calculations? Are you sure that you have done that correctly? Can you let us know if that is the maximum amount of benefits? And are you sure you have used the child and working tax credit correctly? Also, does housing benefit pay for a mortgage, I know it used to pay for the interest part only at some point in the past.Peace.0 -
...Georgia...
We were there for the US in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo and Syria.
Where were they for us?
Trust me, we don't want American influence in the country (or European, for that matter), and want to be allowed to live in peace.
The idea is not to become the richest or best at anything, but IMO people are more unhappy in the country and the way it's run than ever before.💙💛 💔0 -
leveller2911 wrote: »Just gone onto the Governments "entitled to " website and punched in the following:.
Your problem is that most EU immigrants don't work less than full time hours a week at minimum wage and have two kids.
Which is why EU migrants, (the ones we've actually had, not the fictional ones you like to use for made up examples), have been significant net contributors on average.
Like it or not, the EU migrants we've had have paid in billions of pounds more than they've taken out.
They subsidise the native born population.
And none of your made up examples can change that basic fact.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
leveller2911 wrote: »Couple living in the South East UK (not London) with one working 19-24hrs a week on NMW with the other one not working. They have 2 chilren aged 12 and 15, boy and a girl.The household income is £13,520 a year and they pay out £1,371-68p in tax and NI.They rent privately and their benefit entitlement is as follows.
Child Tax and working tax credits £7,075-40 per year
Housing benefit of £5,683-24 per year
Council tax benefit of £620-03 per year (based on £1,440-00 per year full)
Child benefit of £1,770-60 per year
Total Benefit entitlement for the year 2014-15 is £15,149-27
This made me feel like "what is the point in me working?"
However, I looked into this and the reality of this example needs to be made clear....
The family of 4 would need to rent in a 3 bed place, probably in a undesirable area for the figures to add up, with only one of the parents working part time.
The bad thing is, they will never own their property, if they stay in the same circumstances they will enter old age still needing to work? The bad thing is there is little advantage or incentive to work a full week for the one parent or for both parents to work because the benefits are too generous. They can work more or harder etc but the wage goes up as the benefits go down.
The 1 parent that is working would need to earn close to 40k per yr to start getting more money in the pocket.
... Also, the housing benefit is going into the hands of private buy to let landlords! this is insanity?! yet another example of how broken the housing system is in this country?Peace.0 -
TickersPlaysPop wrote: »However, I looked into this and the reality of this example needs to be made clear....
The reality is that EU migrants are significantly less likely to claim benefits than the native born.
Ad that EU migrants, in the numbers we've had, pot washers and all, have been net contributors to society.
They subsidise the rest of us by billions of pounds.....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The reality is that EU migrants are significantly less likely to claim benefits than the native born.
Ad that EU migrants, in the numbers we've had, pot washers and all, have been net contributors to society.
They subsidise the rest of us by billions of pounds.....
The increase in population, not solely caused by immigrants whether EU or otherwise, causes the UK massive costs.
Firstly house prices in the London and SE area are very high due to the high level of demand : in London over 30% of the population are foreign born which has put massive pressure on house prices.
The massive increase in the population of London causes major costs to improve the transport infrastructure and the hidden costs of delays etc.
Even at the level of the academic studies that Hamish is so fond of quoting, they only so simple tax take v benefits and don't include the life time costs to all the marginal costs of extra infrastructure, congestion etc.
Add to this the low level of productivity in the UK, directly related to the ready supply of cheap labour: so business can avoid investing for greater productivity and high paid jobs.
There is a serious shortage of health services in London due to the increase in population.0 -
Even at the level of the academic studies that Hamish is so fond of quoting, they only so simple tax take v benefits and don't include the life time costs to all the marginal costs of extra infrastructure, congestion etc..
No, that's completely untrue.
Those studies allow for in work benefits, and also for increasing demand on services and infrastructure and the costs of expanding them, and they even allocate a proportionate cost for things that don't change with EU migration, such as defence spending.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »No, that's completely untrue.
Those studies allow for in work benefits, and also for increasing demand on services and infrastructure and the costs of expanding them, and they even allocate a proportionate cost for things that don't change with EU migration, such as defence spending.
it's good to know you agree about problems of house prices in the SE, increase in delays and queues, increase in travel times, lack of access to health services etc.
and of cost the massive cost of lack on business investment and low wages.
Some of the studies (not all) include some average pricing but they don't include the margin (actual costs).0 -
it's good to know you agree about problems of house prices in the SE, increase in delays and queues, increase in travel times, lack of access to health services etc.
Oh please....
SE business is booming, they need more employees, and new employees need more housing. As you lot always claim immigrants live more to a house than the native born, you should be delighted.... they're taking pressure off housing by comparison to shipping in a load of Northerners....
Delays and queues are a result of inadequate investment in infrastructure to cope with our growing economy, not the fault of immigrants, and curtailing economic growth to avoid investing in infrastructure is clearly not the solution.... That would truly be the tail wagging the dog.
Health - EU migrants pay more in than they take out, better spend some of it on health.
and of cost the massive cost of lack on business investment and low wages.
EU migrants increase the wages of the native born, on average, and are vital to economic growth and hence new business investment.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Like it or not, the UK juggernaut isn't stopping any time soon. There are jobs and innovation and culture that for one reason or another appeals. People are going to keep moving here.0
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