Please help with park with ease/IAS appeal

seasailor46

I received a letter last week from Park with Ease detailing a parking 'fine' dating back to September. The letter was dated 32 days after the 'offence' and arrived through my letterbox 37 days after the 'offence'

Added to this I do not think the signage was/is adequate, so I appealed to them using the template in the sticky, here's the reply I got:

"Dear XXXX

Thank you for your well rehearsed email.

We note the points that you raise many of which are irrelevant. We will address the points that have relevance in the matter.

The charge is not a penalty of a pre estimate of losses it is a contractual charge that you agreed to on entering the car park. Should you have not been happy to enter into the contract you had the option at that stage to reject the contract and not use the facilities, something you chose not to do. The site contains in excess of £14 signs throughout the park not to mention an entrance sign sized at 2.4m x 1.2m stating the contract of use and the tariff for parking. It is not a requirement for us to disclose to you our proprietary right, this has been validated by our ATA and would be provided at any legal proceedings we may bring against you. There is no requirement for the notice to comply with POFA 2012. As we have stated above the contract was made as above.

We therefore reject your appeal and will await your payment.

Please also note we have no desire to enter into your contract offer made

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. For further information please visit <edit the IAS website>


Regards


Park With Ease"

I've two questions really, first why is there is no requirement for the notice to comply with POFA 2012 when they're using ANPR? And secondly I gave my PCN number on my appeal email, therefore do I need to email them again with my PCN,Reg number and date of charge in order to take this appeal further?

Many thanks for any help you can offer

seasailor46

Sorry to post again but I've just re-read the newbie guides and other posts and I'm really confused how/why PWE say that there is no requirement for the notice to comply with POFA 2012, this seems to contradict the information I read in the guide?

Coupon-mad

What was unclear in the sticky thread about the fact a PPC doesn't have to follow POFA, doesn't have to try for keeper liability?


''In most cases, only send an appeal or challenge when the PPC send you the postal 'Notice to Keeper' (NTK) or 'reminder to keeper' or Parking Charge' or 'charge notice' or whatever they call their first letter. If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to) the Notice has to arrive by day 15 if there was no windscreen ticket, and between day 29 and day 56 if there was a windscreen ticket. Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA2012 so the keeper is not liable - obviously the keeper is the only person identified in your appeal then! ''

seasailor46

What I'm getting confused about is this PPC obtained details from the DVLA and sent out a notice 32 days after the alleged parking incident, yet they say in their reply there is no requirement to comply with POFA 2012, so therefore why does any PPC even bother complying with POFA 2012, what do they gain from complying and what in this case does the PPC loose from not complying?

I would be grateful for some help with this as from what I can gather the PPC say they don't have to comply with POFA 2012 therefore they can't seek keeper liability, and as I wasn't driving the car I can't be liable. Am I correct with this, if so how does the PPC ever hope to recover any money from anyone, as surely everyone will just say they wasn't the driver?

Fergie76

If they want to invoke keeper liability under POFA12, then they most certainly do have to comply with POFA.

Complain to the DVLA and the IAS, although I doubt the IAS will be interested.

See what the regulars say, but your appeal should be that there is no keeper liability under POFA12, as the PPC have not complied with it.

bazster

seasailor46 wrote: »

What I'm getting confused about is this PPC obtained details from the DVLA and sent out a notice 32 days after the alleged parking incident, yet they say in their reply there is no requirement to comply with POFA 2012, so therefore why does any PPC even bother complying with POFA 2012, what do they gain from complying and what in this case does the PPC loose from not complying?

I would be grateful for some help with this as from what I can gather the PPC say they don't have to comply with POFA 2012 therefore they can't seek keeper liability, and as I wasn't driving the car I can't be liable. Am I correct with this, if so how does the PPC ever hope to recover any money from anyone, as surely everyone will just say they wasn't the driver?

You are correct in your interpretation, they didn't comply with PoFA therefore they can't hold the keeper liable. It may be that failing to comply with PoPLA is incompetence rather than policy and that generally they do try to comply. On the other hand maybe they couldn't give a stuff and simply rely on mugs paying up without realising they don't have to (just as all these scum did before PoFA 2012 was enacted).

However, the joke IAS has decided to adopt the policy that if an appellant doesn't state whether they were the driver they will simply presume (on the basis of no evidence) that they were. So, if you genuinely weren't driving you need to categorically say so in your appeal. It'd be interesting to see how the IAS so-called adjudicator dealt with that: would he/she be willing to go as far as calling you a liar?

Guys_Dad

Your appeal to Its is simple. You include their joke of a letter and appeal as follows.

I am appealing this parking charge. I was not the driver on the day and, as the operator issued the Notice to Keeper outside the prescribed time for ANPR tickets, keeper liability is inapplicable. Please instruct the operator to cancel the ticket.

Obviously add the relevant dates and location of contravention.

This is assuming you have not admitted driving in your appeal to operator.

Edit:- are you 100% sure this is an ANPR case and not a "lost windscreen ticket"?

bazster

Park with Ease operates a pay-remotely/later system, it has to be ANPR.

EnigmaPart1

It is indeed ANPR

You have to spell it out to the IAS that you not required to indicate the driver nor are you liable under POFA

The_Slithy_Tove

Park With Ease are claiming that the amount they are asking for is a contractural charge. That depends a lot on the signage. Do you have a photo of the signs? Where was the car park? For example, the Lake District National Park use Park With Ease. This sign from Coniston car park does not specify an amount for not paying in time, merely that they will demand their costs. They must therefore detail those costs and, of course, apply VAT.

Guys_Dad

Thanks for the confirmation and photo.

This is not a contractual charge like some IPC sites where they state the charge is £100. It is clear that it is a claim for losses, which is GPEOL, and they would have needed to have proved that had they complied with POFA 2012 and served the NtK within time.