Breadmaking Fail

TallingtonGirl

Last night I tried making bread, suffice to say it didn't end well. I was baking a marmite and chedder loaf from John Waites at Home recipe book. The recipe said 10 minutes kneading by hand or 6 minutes with a mixer's dough hook. So being lazy I used the dough hook on my Kenwood Chef.

However, after the alloted one hour the dough had not risen at all. So I left it for a while longer and eventually gave up. It didn't rise what so ever. So my question is, would I have been better to knead by hand? I checked the dates on the flour and yeast, both were in date (October 2014 and November 2014)?

I would like to try it again this weekend, i'm getting some more bread flour today. has anyone got any tips? I haven't really bread without a bread maker machine before.

TG

FairyPrincessk

Your kneading method shouldn't affect the dough rising. It can affect texture, but I honestly find a dough hook knead makes my bread better. I suspect this is because I've relatively small hands and don't have the stamina the dough really needs (no pun intended!) Out of date flour should affect it either--even if yours had been.

A few things could be at play I'd consider them in this order--

1. If your house is too cold your dough will only rise very slowly. I would expect to see a bit in an hour, but really an hour is a short rise period. The rise time tends to be a suggestion. You could try placing your dough in a warm spot next time--say airing cupboard warm.

2. Yeast--try testing it in warm (not hot!--say baby bottle warm) water with a bit of sugar in it. If after ten minutes it is frothy then your yeast is fine. Even yeast that is in date can go bad--it can be a bit finicky.

3. Salt can inhibit yeast. If there is a lot of salt in the dough try cutting back on it. Likewise yeast needs sugar. Adding a bit to the dough can help it rise faster.

madnotstupid

A few thoughts -
did you check the yeast packet instructions? there are different kinds, some are suitable for adding straight to the mix, others are meant to be added to warm water first.

too much salt / too little sugar will stop yeast from working.

dough rises best (or at least most quickly) in the warm, so warm liquid and a warm place to prove are needed.

there is also the chance that the yeast you had, just was no longer active, even though it was in date.

can't see why using a dough hook would have an adverse effect.

madnotstupid

wow - cross post - or there's an echo in here!!

TallingtonGirl

Thanks FairyPrincess. It could be the salt. The recipe called for 5g salt and 5g sugar, but I also used salted butter because I didn't have anything else. I'll use half the salt next time and unsalted butter. Fingers crossed i'll get a better rise.

TG

TallingtonGirl

madnotstupid wrote: »

A few thoughts -
did you check the yeast packet instructions? there are different kinds, some are suitable for adding straight to the mix, others are meant to be added to warm water first.

too much salt / too little sugar will stop yeast from working.

dough rises best (or at least most quickly) in the warm, so warm liquid and a warm place to prove are needed.

there is also the chance that the yeast you had, just was no longer active, even though it was in date.

can't see why using a dough hook would have an adverse effect.

Thank you, I used fast action yeast and just chucked it in with all the other ingredients like the recipe said. I probably should have read the packet now. You live and learn.

joedenise

When adding the salt ensure that it is on the opposite side of the bowl to the yeast as it can inhibit the yeast from working.

I always use my dough hook on the Kenwood Chef when I make bread as it would take me far longer than 10 minutes to knead the dough by hand.

Good luck with the next batch.

Denise

FairyPrincessk

Definitely an echo madnotstupid!

TG, I'd suggest activating your yeast before chucking it in. Some fast action says it can be chucked straight in, but I find it works far better if you dissolve it first. Just put it, along with whatever sugar is in the recipe in some of the water called for (make sure it is warm but not hot) and let it stand for a few minutes, then add to the dough as called for. This has the added advantage of letting you know if the yeast is activating properly before you wait for the whole rise!

TallingtonGirl

Thanks Denise, i'm pretty sure I put the yeast in then the salt, oops!

I'm alot more confident for the nest batch now.

TallingtonGirl

FairyPrincessk wrote: »

Definitely an echo madnotstupid!

TG, I'd suggest activating your yeast before chucking it in. Some fast action says it can be chucked straight in, but I find it works far better if you dissolve it first. Just put it, along with whatever sugar is in the recipe in some of the water called for (make sure it is warm but not hot) and let it stand for a few minutes, then add to the dough as called for. This has the added advantage of letting you know if the yeast is activating properly before you wait for the whole rise!

That sounds great, i'll give it a go later.

I shall update the thread with my progress and hopfully a picture of my finished loaf.

TG

thenanny2die4

D'ya know what? Sometimes it just doesn't work. I make bread all the time and always use the same method but results are not guaranteed. I think atmospheric conditions play a massive part and also the flour (don't assume that always buying the same brand means you get the same product...).

A couple of nights ago I made a loaf and a small batch of rolls. Now, for some reason, rolls have always been my nemesis; they're always suitable for use in hand to hand combat so I gave up on them ages ago although my loaves are a joy to me . But, because I was too lazy to go to the shop, I decided to give rolls another bash.

So, the loaf was looking rubbish from the get-go. It struggled to double in size, felt like rock when I knocked it back and took five hours :eek: in a very warm room to achieve a second rise that was worth baking. In contrast, the dough for the rolls was rising as I was watching it. It was the softest, puffiest dough I've ever made and the end results were gorgeous. We could have eaten the whole batch whilst waiting for the loaf to prove.

My point is, just don't worry about it. If your confidence is knocked, just make a less highly flavoured loaf to get you back on track ( I do wonder about the marmite...). My go-to recipe is 500g of any mixture of flours I fancy, 1tsp sugar, 2tsp salt, 1 sachet yeast (chucked straight in - I've NEVER activated it), a couple of tbsp oil and I measure 350ml of liquid but rarely use it all. I knead on oil and knock back on flour. If I add anything else (cheese, olives, whatever's knocking about), I've never noticed a difference in the result whether I put it in before or after the first prove.