Complicated parking ticket situation

Pnutter

Searched the forum and couldn't find anything so I hope someone can help.

It's a bit of a complicated parking ticket situation, involving some family from abroad and a car rental company (I'm just the third person in this!). So I figured the easiest is to sum up a timeline and some facts:

01-09 to 07-09 My wife and I are on holiday abroad.
02-09 to 07-09 My cousin and his girlfriend from the Netherlands stay at our place for a holiday in Cornwall. During that week, my cousin and girlfriend rent a car from Enterprise and go to Newquay (Tower Road) where they get a parking ticket from a private company (Parking Eye). I spoke to them and they were genuinely surprised so there was no notice on the car windscreen, all they knew was that the machine did not take their change. Stupidly (and this is why I'm involved in the first place), my cousin's girlfriend registered the rental car on our UK address, not their NL address.
11-09 Parking Eye send a notice to Enterprise according to date on letter
16-09 Letter is stamped as received by Enterprise. I find it hard to believe it took 5 days to arrive.
25-09 Initial appeal period expires, penalty notice goes up from 60 to 100 pound.
29-09 We receive the parking ticket notice forwarded by Enterprise, as well as a notice that Enterprise charge us with 35 pound admin fee (to be charged to my cousin's other half's credit card). Letter from Enterprise says to wait paying till we've received further info from Parking Eye but price has already gone up to 100 pound.

So Enterprise are charging a 35 quid admin fee, the penalty notice has already gone up to 100 pound because of a letter that took 18 days (???) to arrive. And all that whilst in actual fact neither me nor my wife has anything to do with it... Parking Eye don't know the driver and don't have their postal address, and apparently under Paragraph 9(2)b of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have to tell Parking Eye the full name and postal address of the driver. If we don't and if the amount isn't paid in full in 29 days, we can get charged.

I've gone through the stickie with the appeal notices but as this is a bit of a strange one, I thought I'd ask for advice. Any help is much appreciated!

Pnutter

On top of that I just found a thread talking about the same problem on Tower Road in Newquay with the parking ticket machine. I can't post a link to this thread (Parking eye fine.. Faulty machine) as I'm a new user (long-time reader though), but if you search Tower Road Parking Eye you'll find the thread.

Dee140157

As the driver lives abroad, simply wrote to a parking a Eye and pass the name and address of driver to them.

Whilst we normally say appeal as keeper, since you weren't keeper, you cannot appeal. They presumably have written to relative at your address, so pass on their address. Once you have done this, you are absolved of all responsibility.

Should they ever try to pursue you further, keep evidence that you were abroad.

PE will be very i likely to take the PCN further with an address of Serivce abroad.

As for the admin fee, that will be for your cousin to fight. You need to search re hire car companies as there is something called the BVRLA memorandum of understanding that for a private parking charge notice which is not a fine or offence etc, the hire company should pass the hirers details on. Whilst they may charge a small fee for doing this, you can argue that £35 is excessive.

Whatever happens, once you have named them you are out of the loop.

Coupon-mad

I agree with Dee - the HIRER should send the name and address of the DRIVER (different person) to PE, online using their appeals page and post a copy of it in a clear letter as well. I would sign the letter off in the name of the hirer (not you!). So, cousin's name goes on the bottom of the letter naming his girlfriend as the driver (giving Dutch address) or vice versa.

An alternative - if you want to spare them any letters that may be sent to Holland by PE, who have written to Germany in bad German before! - would simply be to write an appeal in the name of the Dutch cousin (with his permission) in fact giving the driver's name as girlfriend BUT AT YOUR ADDRESS. That way, a PCN will be sent to girlfriend at your address and then you can handle the appeal and win at POPLA and tell her when she has won!

Also, in the same name of hirer, email Enterprise (or your cousin can do it himself) and demand to see the clause where they reckon they can charge £35 for 'doing nothing correctly'! They should at least protect their own position by writing to PE giving the name and address of the hirer, as per the Memorandum of Understanding which was agreed between the BPA and the BVRLA months ago! Ask Enterprise why have they not followed the BPA/BVRLA MoU seeing as the BVRLA is their Trade Body:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5063387

Not only that, Enterprise t&cs only cover real fines and this is no such thing. So their own contract doesn't allow them to charge a hirer for mishandling this matter, so as Dee says this is ripe for dispute by the cousin, he could reject the payment as disputed through his credit card depending upon Dutch finance rules.

HO87

+1 to C-M's suggestions

The relevant clause of Enterprise's (current) rental agreement I suspect they are looking to rely on is worded as follows:

5. Charges

d. Additional Obligations

• A reasonable administration fee for processing any fines or offences against the vehicle, you or us during the rental period, unless caused by our own fault.(sic)

Not sure that cuts it.

PE also have a contract with EPC - Euro Parking Collections so the OP's cousin may see a letter from them in due course if he chooses to do nothing.

Personally, I would be registering an appeal as the driver (as C_M suggests) and making that appeal in Dutch.

Dee140157

Actually, if you do appeal in Dutch, just translate the appeal in the newbie thread for us and let us see it! I am beginning to wonder if it would be useful to have a foreign language thread with the newbie appeal translated accurately by dual speakers into their other tongue.

bazster

There is a very good reason for PE being informed of the driver's address in Holland rather than handling this from the OP's address in England: a Money Claim Online cannot be brought against someone at an address outside of England or Wales.

Pnutter

Thanks for your help! Taken me a little while to respond as I’ve been plowing my way through POFA 2012.

Building on your replies, I have some further questions mainly regarding the following paragraph in the notification from PE:

“You are warned that, if, after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued), the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and our current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This warning is given to you under Paragraph 9(2b) of Schedule 4 of the Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.

Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we will pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.

Should you identify someone, who denies they were the driver, we will pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.”

Having read Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 Act, an interesting difference appears between PE’s wording and the wording in the actual act. This paragraph is very clear about the conditions attached, and that the creditor has the right to recover the full amount from the keeper. In this context, ‘Keeper’ is defined as “the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper.” (registered keeper is “the person in whose name the vehicle is registered”.

PE have conveniently substituted "keeper" with "you", implying I was the keeper. I can very easily prove I cannot be the keeper as I was on a sailing trip organised by a third party, and was somewhere in the middle of the English Channel at the time of the ticket being issued.

Paragraph 13(3b) of POFA 2012 covers hire vehicles. There is no mention of transfer of liability to the person residing at the address to which the vehicle was registered if that person was neither the driver nor the keeper.

Therefore, following this reasoning am I correct in saying that I have no liability whatsoever anyway? Do I even have an obligation to notify PE of the registered keeper? I cannot find a reference to any such obligation in the POFA 2012.

Based on this, I think I will follow this course of action:
1. Notify PE of the name and address of the registered keeper (I do not know who the actual driver was at the time of the ticket being issued). Once they are identified as the registered keeper they can follow the standard template provided on this forum. As I was not present in the car at the time it was parked, nor registered as keeper, I cannot identify the driver, merely the keeper.
2. Notify PE of the fact that the registered keeper resides in and is a national of the Netherlands who has no link to my address other than that I allowed them to use my home for a short holiday free of charge.
3. Notify PE that I have 6 witnesses to the fact that I was not in the UK at the time of the parking ticket was issued, and can therefore not be considered the “Keeper”. This can be backed up by a statement from the company who arranged the sailing trip for us.
4. Notify PE that, under Paragraphs 13(1)a I am not liable for any parking charges as I was not under a hire agreement for this vehicle, it was merely registered to my address as this was the keeper’s temporary address (as advised by the hire company).
5. Notify PE that any further letter from them will be considered harassment and reported to the police, unless this letter is sent to confirm they will not contact me again.
6. Send a copy of the correspondence to Enterprise with the same notification that I do not wish to be contacted by them again regarding this matter.

Any comments on this approach?

Guys_Dad

Stop at points 1 & 2. That is all you need.

bazster

You are absolutely right that since you were neither the driver nor the keeper of the vehicle you have no liability whatsoever.

However, the registered keeper of the vehicle is the hire company. Having rented the vehicle, the de facto keeper was your cousin's girlfriend (I am presuming she gave her name when renting the car, but your address, and that all the guff from ParkingEye is addressed to her name, but at your address; please clear this up, otherwise things could get messy).

But I don't think you need to worry too much about the distinction between registered keeper and de facto keeper. You could simply write to PE telling them that Ms. Blah-de-Blah was only temporarily resident at this address and can now be contacted at The Windmill, Old Amsterdam, Netherlands. You really don't need to do anything else if it wasn't your name on the rental agreement. Just because someone sends a letter to your address doesn't make it your responsibility if it ain't addressed to you personally! All you are really doing is sending a "doesn't live here any more" response.

4consumerrights

^^^

Ditto Bazster - the RK is the Enterprise the legal owners of the vehicle.

The dates you posted in your OP are also not "out".

Enterprise have forwarded this notice to your address and presumably in the name of your cousin who took out the lease vehicle - by their wording of the letter - it would appear they have also notified Parking Eye of this fact - thereby discharging their legal obligations under POFA.

Parking Eye should also therefore be sending to your address a "revamped" parking charge notice to the hirer of the vehicle - which then will set out the 28 day time period.

There would also be nothing to stop you appealing this from your address either....

Parking Eye also clearly state on their documentation (in small print) that they only accept appeals in English.

Of course PTAS could handle this for you in a flash !!!