Can a new manager cancel existing holidays?

gettingtheresometime

Mummy_Moo wrote: »

Thank you.

I don't really want to rock the boat at all, but neither do I want to be a push-over or be taken advantage of. I like the team, including my manager and we all get on well. I do understand that other people may like time off but we have sufficient staff for everyone to have some time off in addition to the bank holidays when everyone will be off. We all pull together when people take holidays / are off sick / leave without notice and I have done more than my fair share of extra shifts and responsibilities. Surely I am entitled to my holiday too.

The main issue is childcare. Nursery will be closed and I don't have an alternative. Surely it is better to request a holiday months in advance than wait until some time in December when there is a rota available and then say "errr, I can't do that."

All in all I completely understand why the manager has said no, and I know she is trying to be fair and even. If she wanted to decline a new request then that would be a different matter, but this has already been authorised, and there seems to be no policy in place to suggest that my request should be declined.

Whilst I appreciate that you may have booked to go away but that's completely besides the point as you haven't (so that needs to be filed under the 'won't someone think of the children argument')

As for the business having plenty of staff but do none of them want a break over Christmas - would it not have been at least courteous to have asked first?

If you do push this, I hope that you have it in writing about not working weekends etc as I have a funny feeling you'll be put down to work them more in the future

Savvy_Sue

I would dust off the CV and join a union ...

Has the other colleague been there longer than two years? Are they prepared to raise a grievance over this? How much does it matter to them?

It's perfectly legal, but I don't think it's fair or reasonable of a new manager to cancel a holiday booking without communicating this to those concerned. Just crossing it off the calendar without either speaking or leaving a note - was she hoping no-one would notice?

And then to say "wait and see" - what are you waiting for? To see if someone changes the date of Christmas?

By all means change the system or policy for next year - although doing that without reference to the company's wider policies seems unwise. By all means say "please can we find out who is and is not wanting to work over those two weeks and then allocate leave". But as a manager, to whinge that you'll have to work if one of your team has leave and then just cancel their leave - NOT ON!

If things do get awkward, is it possible to swap shifts once the rota comes out? And how much notice of that do you get?

Mummy_Moo

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

As for the business having plenty of staff but do none of them want a break over Christmas - would it not have been at least courteous to have asked first?

The business has an extremely high staff turnover. The staff who were employed at the time the holiday was booked had no objections, but have since all left. The current staff all joined the company after the holiday booking was approved, though none of them have expressed and objection to me being off, some have even said that they are happy to work the Christmas period as it will be quiet.

I know this may look extremely selfish but I haven't just bulldozed my way through and created a situation where everyone else will have to work all over Christmas and New Year. Everyone will be off on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day. On the other days (normal, non-bank holiday days) it is very likely that opening hours will be reduced significantly, requiring only two members of staff per day out of a team of nine. Realistically I am only suppose to work a couple of days per week anyway - with the bank holidays as a day off for everyone no-one would have to work more hours than normal to cover my absence, and it is very likely that everyone's hours would reduce even if I am not there.

Mummy_Moo

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Has the other colleague been there longer than two years? Are they prepared to raise a grievance over this? How much does it matter to them?

And then to say "wait and see" - what are you waiting for? To see if someone changes the date of Christmas?

If things do get awkward, is it possible to swap shifts once the rota comes out? And how much notice of that do you get?

None of us have been there longer than two years as it is a new site that opened in February. Myself and the other member of staff joined when we opened, everyone else joined the company later.

I'm not really sure what we're waiting for - presumably just because she doesn't want to make a decision this far in advance. But with nursery being closed the only option for me to be able to work is if someone else can book time off to look after my child - obviously this isn't going to be feasible if I don't know when I need childcare until the beginning of December. It is difficult enough to find people willing to do this anyway, especially at this time of year when people have other plans. Swapping shifts once the rota is up would be difficult as it would most likely be the manager that I need to swap with.

I'm not against compromise - if I can find any alternative childcare then I will, and in that case I'm happy to do my fair share, but that is a big 'if'. Surely though, it is reasonable for her to tell me when I need to arrange this childcare for though, as the more notice I have the better the chances. Not knowing until early December doesn't put me in a good position to make arrangements.

Really hope this can be resolved. From looking into it is legal for her to cancel the holiday, but also legal for me to decline any shifts offered as I'm on a 0-hour contract. Obviously me declining shifts at short notice in December will created issues for the manager and other staff, as well as risking affecting the number / type of shifts I would be allocated in future, hence why I would like to sort this out sooner rather than later.

Frozenace

Personally, I think that you should have a chat with your current manager and explain your situation.

a) Ask her what would she do in your situation as a single parent having to look out for their child over christmas while the nursery is closed?

b) What would happen if you can't find a replacement for the time the nursery is closed?

The fairness argument isn't really compelling and is surely going to demotivate you and your colleagues.

Going4TheDream

You say that the original manager (and area manager) agreed you would not have to work when the nursery was closed.... if your new manager wont agree to honour this agreement go above their head and revisit this with the area manager

specialboy

Going4TheDream wrote: »

You say that the original manager (and area manager) agreed you would not have to work when the nursery was closed.... if your new manager wont agree to honour this agreement go above their head and revisit this with the area manager

The OP hasn't said anything about the new manager changing her hours, her problem is with holidays which she should take up with the area manager if she's not getting any joy out of this manager.

2gorgeousgirls

The nursery will be closed every Christmas so you're going to need every Christmas off if you have no alternative childcare. That is really going to annoy colleagues at some point.

What's going to happen when your child goes to school? Believe me, school kids have an amazing amount of holidays.

I have children myself and know its very hard sometimes to work round holidays but your manager's priority is to keep the business running and if she needs you to work then she won't be concerned about your childcare issues.

I see you said you could get someone but it would involve a 3 hour round trip. Would that person be prepared to keep your child overnight and then you could work 2 days with only one round trip?

Making yourself unavailable for shifts over Christmas on a 0 hour contract could affect your shifts after the hols.

Think carefully about alternative employment if you enjoy working there. This is a situation you will come across with most employers at some point. I have worked in many places and in each of those places I have had to compromise on the holidays I wanted at some point.

view

This would have completely scunnered me if happened last year as I had verbal agreement with my then 'newish' boss to take 21 days off over Christmas, New Year and into January so I could visit my home country for a sibling wedding and christening. I booked and paid for the flights for myself and partner (which were very expensive), plus pre-paid hotels and car hire (taking advantage of some hotel/car deals at the time booking so far in advance). All based on this verbal agreement (and also noting in boss's calendar and the holiday diary online).

If a new boss had come in and changed things then what would have happened, I would have lost thousands.

What if you had pre-paid for a trip away, what would happen then?

I agree going forward now there is a proper plan in place that all staff should adhere to this. However, based on an existing agreement (verbal and in writing - as in your boss at the time added to the calendar) and also based on the new boss saying all holidays that had been approved will stay in place you should be allowed to take the time off.

Going forward, you need to adhere to the new ways of working when it comes to holiday bookings embedded by your new boss.

It's one Christmas/New Year.. it's not going to kill anyone. The same will probably happen over summer when parents put in first to have time off over school holidays.

You do need to consider all factors going forward for time off, especially if you have offspring. Perhaps this is not the right job for you if you can't work around the hours for this reason.

Going4TheDream

specialboy wrote: »

The OP hasn't said anything about the new manager changing her hours, her problem is with holidays which she should take up with the area manager if she's not getting any joy out of this manager.

I dont believe I mentioned anything about the Op saying her hours would change. The original agreement was that the OP would not have to work when the nursery was closed due to child care commitments and my suggestion was that she took it up with area manager present at the original agreement

Mummy_Moo wrote: »

Thank you everyone. I have drafted a letter to my manager politely requesting that she reconsider and outlining my reasons why. If this too is rejected I suppose I am in an awkward position and may need to consider looking at other jobs. I really hope it doesn't come to that but when there is no childcare I can't work.