Do you believe this is right?

CLAPTON

AndyGuil wrote: »

The entire EU market will lose 5.25 bn Euros.

Farmers have already said they will go bust with the embargo http://en.itar-tass.com/opinions/1870

indeed


if farmers say they need more money or else then obviously we must give it to them immediately

CLAPTON

BillJones wrote: »

Farmers are people, just like anyone else. Look at the posts on here form other people to see just how any make no provision at all for the lean times.

farmers are business people who milk subsidies


most food production takes place on industrial scale farms

El_Torro

I am all for opening our markets (within reason) to allow for greater trade between regions. This leads to specialised economies, greater efficiencies and (hopefully) more prosperity for all.

When it comes to agriculture though I am not totally opposed to the CAP. Food is a fundamental need for everyone and there is a strong argument that the EU should be self sufficient in terms of food. If China suddenly decided to stop selling us flat screen TV's then that would be an annoyance. However if we were dependent on foreign countries for our food supply then a disruption of that supply would have disastrous consequences.

As for this particular subsidy, I just see it as the price we pay to maintain security of food.

Bantex_2

CLAPTON wrote: »

farmers are business people who milk subsidies


most food production takes place on industrial scale farms

The French have a particular love for small family run farms which are not economically viable. They have been clever in getting the rest of Europe to pay for them though.

AndyGuil

CLAPTON wrote: »

indeed


if farmers say they need more money or else then obviously we must give it to them immediately

So the farmers can afford to have over 5 bn Euros less sales and have the remaining stock slashed in value with some produce hit much harder than others?

BillJones

CLAPTON wrote: »

farmers are business people who milk subsidies

Nice sweeping generalisation there.

CLAPTON

AndyGuil wrote: »

So the farmers can afford to have over 5 bn Euros less sales and have the remaining stock slashed in value with some produce hit much harder than others?

5bn out of xxx bn is only 5/xxx %


most 'farmers' are rich
many of the richest people in the UK are farmers


they weren't FORCED to trade with Russia they did so to make money which is fine but when it goes wrong I see no reason to bail them out.




if they don't understand the economics of farming and the risks of dealing with a gangster state like Russia then they shouldn't be in farming.

CLAPTON

BillJones wrote: »

Nice sweeping generalisation there.

indeed so but I was referring to the European farmers and not those on a worldwide scale.

AndyGuil

CLAPTON wrote: »

5bn out of xxx bn is only 5/xxx %


most 'farmers' are rich
many of the richest people in the UK are farmers


they weren't FORCED to trade with Russia they did so to make money which is fine but when it goes wrong I see no reason to bail them out.




if they don't understand the economics of farming and the risks of dealing with a gangster state like Russia then they shouldn't be in farming.

UK ones don't have much exposure. It is eastern european, some central and southern farmers that are getting hit hard. A lot of the 5 bn is concentrated to areas and specific products.

the_flying_pig

depends what the OP means as "right".

does the current extent of market rigging make any sense from an economic perspective [i.e. from maximising overall welfare]?

nah, ask any agricultural economist, who'll tell you the same.

http://freakonomics.com/2008/07/24/the-illogic-of-farm-subsidies-and-other-agricultural-truths/

this sort of thing is very much here to stay [for now], though, i'm fairly sure of that.