Is it illegal to give homeless ...

Chrisblue1962

soolin wrote: »

Our local beggar lives on a fairly nice estate and has chosen to beg as a lifestyle choice, he gets a fair bit of money merely by sitting huddled up in a hoodie and sleeping bag with a darling little dog. The police have stopped him begging, but they can't stop people giving him money as they pass.

Then twice a say he goes to a local street, uses his nice smart phone to call his dealer who arrives by car, buys just enough drugs to be counted as 'for personal use' and after a meal goes back to beg again.

He is known to the police, he has been filmed buying drugs on numerous occasions, we locals are fed up with him, and apparently the police can do nothing .

How nice it is that a person can opt out from society, rely on others to support his illegal drug habit and be a nuisance to the local community...Not.

You could always contact the police to tell them you are going to video him buying drugs and video the person in the car selling him drugs to post it on Youtube and see what their reaction is?

paulharding150

Johnnytwostep wrote: »

It should be illegal, you are just encouraging them to be visible on the streets, and i would rather not have to walk past them on the way to work.

What a lovley person you are.

lisyloo

What a lovley person you are.

Paul - I have a lot of sympathy for homeless, beggars or anyone down on their luck - however just like everyone else in society that doesn't give them the right to cause problems for others and I'm afraid sometimes they do.
They need help of course, but to pretend they are saints and above reproach is not the truth.

paulharding150

lisyloo wrote: »

Paul - I have a lot of sympathy for homeless, beggars or anyone down on their luck - however just like everyone else in society that doesn't give them the right to cause problems for others and I'm afraid sometimes they do.
They need help of course, but to pretend they are saints and above reproach is not the truth.

Yes, which is why I don't like the comment of the person above saying "I don't want to see them on my way to work"

lisyloo

which is why I don't like the comment of the person above saying "I don't want to see them on my way to work"

It's judgmental (of you) Paul to be honest when you don't know the reason.

silverwhistle

I've a feeling that with logic like that it wouldn't be worth getting in to an argument with you!

lisyloo

I've a feeling that with logic like that it wouldn't be worth getting in to an argument with you!

Not sure if that was aimed at me (because there's no quote) but I will assume so.

Sometimes beggars/homeless/big issue sellers are aggressive and anti-social.
I'll give you two examples -
1) I'm a lone female - if I was approached by a scruffy looking man wanting money and being persistent then I'd be quite worried. I don't go out a lot on my own at night in secluded places but nevertheless I would feel vulnerable. I feel that some men don't understand this feeling so it's worth pointing out.
2) In Bath where I work people wanting money will often physically block your path at the last minute. Because it's so busy on the streets sometimes you cannot avoid that person without crashing into the moving crowd. If that someone is frail, heavily pregnant or blind or just small then that can cause issues (like someone being knocked over).
My DH (who is strong, male and large) used to instinctively try to avoid the beggars and bash into me (smaller and female) instead. I've explained my logic to him and explained that if someone else is the agressor (and usually they are two males) then he should crash into him instead - but it does take conscious effort to protect your wife because the automatic instinct is to get out of the way. So we have to actively guard against these people hurting us (I accept the physical harn is unintentional but it's a result of them being aggresive).

These are actually fairly mild examples of anti-social behaviour but as a smaller and weaker person I still find them threatening and have been physically hurt in the past.

Now I don't know what johnnytwostep meant in post #7, but because I know for a fact that beggars/homeless/big issue sellers CAN somtimes be anti-social and threatening (and cause physical harm) then I don't have a big issue with what he said because he MAY have good reasons.
We cannot of course judge either way until we know the reasons.

I don't have an issue with beggars/homeless/big issue sellers PER SE, but I do if they (or anyone else) is being threatening or anti-social.

If you don't think it's worth an argument then that's fine, but I hope I've explained my logic fully as to why there isn't necessarilly an issue with post#7 because there COULD BE a justifiable reason for it. Surely it's normal not to want drunken rowdy behaviour or exposure around your children and not to want agressive people bashing into the pregnant and frail in crowds??
To judge post#7 without understanding Johhnys reasons is itself judgmental.

I hope that explains it for you.
I think I'm being perfectly reasonable by having sympathy for those in need but wanting to protect myself and other vulnerable members of society against unacceptable behaviour and physical harm.

At the moment I don't see why I shouldn't want people around who we have to constantly guard against because they are in the habit of doing me physical harm to pursue their own aims.
I generally walk across the street to avoid them but that is because of THEIR agressive behaviour.

If you think that's an unreasonable stance then please explain why.
I believe I AM someone worth arguing with because I will change my stance IF someone gives me the reason why. I'm struggling to see how you will justify physical harm but I'll listen to your arguments if you want to put any.
Perhaps it's different where you live, but I can assure you they are quite aggresive in Bath.
Even if I did want to buy a big issue (which I have in the past) I cannot afford to buy 10 everytime I step out of the office :-) hence you have to "run the gaunlet" of quite a lot agression which occassionally becomes physical.

As a citizen - do I not have the right to go about my business physically unharmed and without undue hassle (and by that I mean 10 people asking me for money 3 times a day)?

tallybee

Of course there are some unsavoury people who aggressively beg which is grim. But don't forget there are lots of decent people who have fallen on bad luck and have nothing through no fault of their own. Jobs are hard to come by and people are having their benefits sanctioned for reasons that would be laughable if it wasn't so acutely harmful. We should be making sure folks don't NEED to beg rather than treating all beggars as criminals etc