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To bail or not to bail?

McCloud1
Posts: 127 Forumite
I'm in about £10k debt, £7k of that is to my boss who has leant me money interest free, I earn £35k a year and I am single with no dependants (I'm 23) so on the face of it my situation isn't that bad.
The reason my finances are in jeopardy is because my behaviour is very self-destructive; as I mentioned in my only other thread some time ago I have a relatively severe personality disorder, and massively struggle to keep track of or deal with the administration of my affairs.
I spend an awful lot of money on living, however I don't want to go into the whole SoA thing as I know exactly where the leaks are and where I can make cutbacks, the problem is remembering when you spend half your time only vaguely aware of your own existence.
£4k of the money leant to me by my boss has been used for purposes other than for which it was leant. No excuses, and I'm not proud of it. There is a chance he may want evidence for his records (because like a sensible man he doesn't trust me), which obviously I will not be able to produce.
My dad has offered me my old room back rent free for a few months to get myself sorted. This seems like it'd be the most sensible idea, as I'd have around £1,200 a month to throw at debt and could repay my boss before I irreparably damage my relationship with him. However I've done the whole running back to my parents before, and I've never learn my lesson. Whilst people are sympathetic as I am quite obviously mentally ill if you meet me in person, I'm actually reasonably switched on underneath the illness and cannot validate my behaviour to myself with that excuse.
So to my question: Would you advise sticking it out, learning to make the cut backs and having a period of discomfort and stress where I may get 'caught out' for my deceptive behaviour , or would you run back to your parents to regroup and have another crack?
I should say now, my dad also has a personality disorder and I find him very toxic to be around for protracted periods (and vice versa) and my mental state does tend to deteriorate. We get on okay, but people with such problems just drag each other further away from reality. In addition it means letting down the friend I live with who is dependant on my living with him to afford a home away from his parents who have moved hundreds of miles away from the only town he's lived in.
I appreciate that this is a novel issue that people are unlikely to have direct experience of, nonetheless I would be very grateful for any thoughts.
The reason my finances are in jeopardy is because my behaviour is very self-destructive; as I mentioned in my only other thread some time ago I have a relatively severe personality disorder, and massively struggle to keep track of or deal with the administration of my affairs.
I spend an awful lot of money on living, however I don't want to go into the whole SoA thing as I know exactly where the leaks are and where I can make cutbacks, the problem is remembering when you spend half your time only vaguely aware of your own existence.
£4k of the money leant to me by my boss has been used for purposes other than for which it was leant. No excuses, and I'm not proud of it. There is a chance he may want evidence for his records (because like a sensible man he doesn't trust me), which obviously I will not be able to produce.
My dad has offered me my old room back rent free for a few months to get myself sorted. This seems like it'd be the most sensible idea, as I'd have around £1,200 a month to throw at debt and could repay my boss before I irreparably damage my relationship with him. However I've done the whole running back to my parents before, and I've never learn my lesson. Whilst people are sympathetic as I am quite obviously mentally ill if you meet me in person, I'm actually reasonably switched on underneath the illness and cannot validate my behaviour to myself with that excuse.
So to my question: Would you advise sticking it out, learning to make the cut backs and having a period of discomfort and stress where I may get 'caught out' for my deceptive behaviour , or would you run back to your parents to regroup and have another crack?
I should say now, my dad also has a personality disorder and I find him very toxic to be around for protracted periods (and vice versa) and my mental state does tend to deteriorate. We get on okay, but people with such problems just drag each other further away from reality. In addition it means letting down the friend I live with who is dependant on my living with him to afford a home away from his parents who have moved hundreds of miles away from the only town he's lived in.
I appreciate that this is a novel issue that people are unlikely to have direct experience of, nonetheless I would be very grateful for any thoughts.
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Comments
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Given what you have posted I think I would try to stick it out not going back to parents.
But I would only do this if you feel you really can cut back on spending, live very frugally and have a decent chance of getting on top of the debt.
Can you try to put some barriers in place to prevent your spending going over the top when you are less in control?
What repayments were discussed with boss originally? Would you consider being honest with him about the situation and your spending difficulties and agreeing with him an amount to deduct from your salary each month?A smile enriches those who receive without making poorer those who giveor "It costs nowt to be nice"0 -
I think Tixy is right, sticking at it and finding coping mechanisns to help you manage your finances. Being honest with your boss could be good if it wont jeopadise your job.
I move X amount of my money into another account every pay day that I dont know where the card is, this is my bills and savings account, By doing it this way I have to consciously go online to move money and that helps me stay focused. I leave myself enough money to cover food, fuel and some fun for the month and once thats gone its gone, I wont use my bills/savings money unless its something for the house or a bill!
I know its easy for me to say, I enjoy saving and have no major problems with budgeting, but perhaps this is a way to help you become more aware of your money? Is there anyone you could get help from around budgeting and managing finances? Perhaps your GP might be able to advise of support groups or help for you to develop coping mechanisms for your BPD, its not good to go it alone and people will want to help.
Really good luck, and taking the first step of coming on here is great!
JodlesMFW2020 #115 250/3000 J-250
1% challenge- /1525Save 1k in 2020- /3000
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Thank you both for the replies.
Basically my boss originally leant me £3k as I explained that I had debt problems (council tax, utilities and PDL's) with the agreement to pay £100 a month (deducted from salary) until my bonus in April which will be about £10k before tax so will easily cover it. I used this money correctly.
I then asked for a further £3,840 so I could buy a yearly train ticket to work as it works out £600 cheaper a year. For reasons I won't go into (as they do not excuse anything) I have spent £2,400 of that money. The loan is to be paid at £384 a month direct out of my salary.
It's hard to say whether he would sack me...I would in his shoes. He's very benign, and I know he thinks my work is good, but I have mucked him about a fair amount in a short space of time. He is a good man and deserves better. I would like to tell him, but I don't know if I can without consequences.
Insofar as putting barriers on spending, the problem is my 'good' side is very capable and in control, and when I'm feeling good I think it's stupid that I can't handle this situation and I quickly plan a viable way out, which goes right down the drain the next morning when I wake up with no memory (my memories seem to run on separate 'tracks', in that my good side cannot remember much of what happens to the bad side, and vice versa).
Re my parents, I really don't want to go back, but I feel stuck. Whilst I may be able to improve the situation somewhat, I am never going to be one of those people who cares about whether a sandwich costs £2.25 or £3.50 or cuts coupons out of newspapers. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just can't think about it when I already have problems with racing thoughts and concentration issues.
Contrary to my OP, I'm going to post an SoA in a new thread. Whilst I know where the leaks are, maybe just being part of a community working towards the same goal is the real value of this forum, and the information and guidance a secondary benefit.0 -
If you don't want to tell boss then I guess you need to work out if you can afford to pay back the 2 loans to him and pay for your monthly train ticket to get to work as well.
In terms of your MH issues - during a good time I think you need to find some way of limiting the amount you can spend a day or week or something, so that there is a limit on how much money you can blow on things.
Perhaps something like making sure all bills get paid as soon as you are paid and then something along the lines of moving some of the money to an inaccessible account straight after payday, and then moving it back to an account you have access to in weekly amounts?
I know there is a guide to dealing with money/bills/debts with MH issues but don't know if would contain advice that would be useful in your particular situation - may be worth a read though? Mse have one guide here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/mental-health-guide?_ga=1.235238345.91994898.1404996998 and I think Mind have something on money management as awell?A smile enriches those who receive without making poorer those who giveor "It costs nowt to be nice"0 -
If, as you say, you are repaying your boss at source - ie out of your salary, then I don't see that there is a problem - he is guaranteed to get his money back.. As a boss I authorised an advance that was repaid from salary over a year to help someone avoid repossession. Whilst I might have been mad if made out to be a fool I was still guaranteed to get the finances back.
As others have suggested I would stick it out - it sounds to me like the last thing you want is to enter into a destructive relationship with your father. However I would urge you to establish some good working practices (budgets etc) whilst you are in this frame of mind. Then, when you are less focussed, you have something to fall back on. If you could see your way through to your bonus in April then the debts could all be paid off.44 day challenge
1. Pay £650 off overdraft (£ 288/ £650)
2. Lose 12 lbs (4.5/ 12)
3. Use YNAB everyday (6/44)0 -
Tixy - I could afford it if I was a responsible person with self-control. I would have to forgo a lot of expense that allows me to socialise. The main issue with that is him asking to see the ticket. Thank you for the advice, I will read the link on the train home. I do agree that I need a system to protect me from myself.
Ninno820 - Thank you for providing an insight as to how an employer may feel. It's a dice roll way, he may find out if I don't tell him, he might not. He may fire me if I tell him, he might not. I find it interesting that the consensus is that I should stick it out, I expected mass agreement that I should do my time, swallow my pride and drag myself home to sort the mess out. I will have to think on this. It is true that if I can make it to April without him finding out and without doubling my debt, I would be free. My salary also spikes by about £15k at that time due to formally qualifying.
I do have £1,400ish of the second loan left, I have no idea what to do with it as I can't trust anyone to look after it for me, but in my account it's going to be wasted on crap. I could say it's early repayment and give it back, but he would definitely question it given the loan was recent, and I'm a bad liar with people I like.0 -
Is it possible to buy a 3month train ticket? and if so would that £1400 be enough to do that as a starting point?A smile enriches those who receive without making poorer those who giveor "It costs nowt to be nice"0
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Is it possible to buy a 3month train ticket? and if so would that £1400 be enough to do that as a starting point?
Sadly no, it isn't. I could plow it into other debt (as I don't just owe money to my boss) but the large monthly payments are mainly all to him, so it wouldn't massively improve things.0 -
I think you will feel a whole lot better about yourself if you pay your boss back.
I also think you need to stop telling yourself that you are irresponsible with no self control. You probably do have self control, and you probably have a part of you that is very responsible.
However with the best will in the world, you have to work with who you are, not what you think you should be. Putting a cream cake in front of yourself and telling yourself simply not to eat it will not help if you have a problem with impulse control. You'd be much better to either accept you will eat the cake; or to not put the cake in front of yourself; or have a plan about what you will do if faced with impulses.
I don't think it's fair to you to put yourself in situations where you are more likely to fail, then berate yourself for failing. I hope the cream cake analogy is making sense. Cream cake is whatever prompts your impulses.
So I would say solutions are not to go back to your parents. That has proved not to work for you. It sounds to me like you could do with some more support and ongoing checking in. Is there any support you can get specifically towards your personality disorder that can assist you with managing your money? It's basically occupational therapy I'm thinking of here: how do you set up your life to help you operate in the best way.
So going back to things people have mentioned above:
- do you know what triggers impulse spending?
- what can you do if you notice those triggers?
- have you looked in to notice savings accounts? These are accounts where you can't withdraw money immediately. This might help your situation (although if you have other debts, I'd use the money to clear those). Or, buy a 3/ 6 month season ticket with the money. Then at least you'd be using it as you said you would.
You also need to figure a way to handle your day to day spending. Whether it's leaving the card at home, using YNAB budgeting system, envelope system...be kind to future you and find ways that make this easier. One thing I have learnt is that the stuff we have doesn't go away, we just get better at handling ourselves. You have a bigger challenge than other people because of your personality disorder, but it is possible to find ways to make it possible. Others have done it and you can too.0 -
I think you will feel a whole lot better about yourself if you pay your boss back.
I also think you need to stop telling yourself that you are irresponsible with no self control. You probably do have self control, and you probably have a part of you that is very responsible.
However with the best will in the world, you have to work with who you are, not what you think you should be. Putting a cream cake in front of yourself and telling yourself simply not to eat it will not help if you have a problem with impulse control. You'd be much better to either accept you will eat the cake; or to not put the cake in front of yourself; or have a plan about what you will do if faced with impulses.
I don't think it's fair to you to put yourself in situations where you are more likely to fail, then berate yourself for failing. I hope the cream cake analogy is making sense. Cream cake is whatever prompts your impulses.
So I would say solutions are not to go back to your parents. That has proved not to work for you. It sounds to me like you could do with some more support and ongoing checking in. Is there any support you can get specifically towards your personality disorder that can assist you with managing your money? It's basically occupational therapy I'm thinking of here: how do you set up your life to help you operate in the best way.
So going back to things people have mentioned above:
- do you know what triggers impulse spending?
- what can you do if you notice those triggers?
- have you looked in to notice savings accounts? These are accounts where you can't withdraw money immediately. This might help your situation (although if you have other debts, I'd use the money to clear those). Or, buy a 3/ 6 month season ticket with the money. Then at least you'd be using it as you said you would.
You also need to figure a way to handle your day to day spending. Whether it's leaving the card at home, using YNAB budgeting system, envelope system...be kind to future you and find ways that make this easier. One thing I have learnt is that the stuff we have doesn't go away, we just get better at handling ourselves. You have a bigger challenge than other people because of your personality disorder, but it is possible to find ways to make it possible. Others have done it and you can too.
Thank you for the insightful reply Hohum.
Yes I would feel much better paying my boss, however the only way to do this before the agreed term is to move back with my dad.
I understand your analogy, that makes sense. The problem is unlike cream cakes, things to spend money on are everywhere, so it's hard to remove the temptation.
I appreciate your charitable comments, but I'm a self-aware person having spent my whole life trying to work out what's wrong with me, and I am very irresponsible. I constantly seek relief from my symptoms, and distracting myself (which invariably costs money) is the only way to reduce them.
I'm not sure about support, I have one of the disorders that is not well understood by the medical profession and I am afforded little in the way of assistance other than ineffective medication. I could of course pay privately for an OT, and it may be an option worth exploring.
To respond to your points:
- do you know what triggers impulse spending? - Yes, the desire to create some kind of pleasure response in my brain
- what can you do if you notice those triggers? - Try to find a mechanism of relief that doesn't revolve around spending
- have you looked in to notice savings accounts? These are accounts where you can't withdraw money immediately. This might help your situation (although if you have other debts, I'd use the money to clear those). Or, buy a 3/ 6 month season ticket with the money. Then at least you'd be using it as you said you would. - For now the savings account is unnecessary, but this is a great piece of information, I had no idea these existed. Once I'm (assuming I get there) in a position where saving is viable I will 100% be using one of these.
I definitely do. Consistency and remembering are my biggest hurdles in this regard. It sounds stupid but just checking this forum daily is an achievement for me, because I'm remembering. I promised myself I would read this each day, and for the last few I've managed.
Again, thank you for your kind response.0
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