UKPC Parking 'invoice' - Specific question

jnmann

Hi folks,

I've recently received one of these parking 'invoices' from UKPC whilst parked in the City Quay Retail Park.

Typical of other posts. Empty car park, ticket placed on screen 6 minutes after we arrived (despite the saying to others they wait 15 minutes)

We genuinely didn't know you had to press the button to get a 'free' ticket, when my Wife asked I simply said the first hour was free, any longer we'd buy a ticket. I can see now how they cover this saying a ticket must always be displayed but at no point did the sign say to press to get a free one.

I've read through the sticky and other threads and I understand the points raised however, although this was a Scottish car park, does it matter that the company in question are registered in England and also, my car is registered in England as well.

From everything I read it looked like I could ignore the 'invoice' but then I read "Unless it's a leased car" My car is on a private lease scheme...how does this affect the charge? I understand that they can apply to the DVLA for registered owner details, this would be the lease company and I'm the registered keeper.

I apologise if this has been covered already but I couldn't find any specific mention regarding leased cars.

Dee140157

Too tired tonight to process this one with the England/Scotland issue and the leased car/registered keeper, but it hasn't been ignored.

Hopefully some one else will give you the answers before I spend time researching, but if not I will pop back tomorrow evening hopefully.

In the meanwhile search lease cars in the forum search to see if the answer is here somewhere. (That's only what I would do).

HO87

If the vehicle is registered in your name, i.e. it is your name and address that appears on the vehicle registration document as the registered keeper (the form V5C) then the fact that you pay for it through a lease scheme is irrelevant. If however, it is the lease company's details that appear on the V5C then, to avoid that "admin" charge you should promptly write to UKPC as the registered keeper and lodge an appeal using one of the initial appeal templates shown in the Newbies thread.

The fact that you might be the registered keeper of the vehicle does not in anyway affect the ultimate ownership of it. Being a keeper is not and should not be regarded as an indication of ownership. This is a point made on the document itself.

It is where the parking event occurred that is the determining factor here. It took place in Scotland and therefore it is Scots law and their courts that has jurisdiction. The fact that the company is based in England is irrelevant. However, the fact that the vehicle (and presumably the driver at the time) are based in England adds an additional complication in that even if the English company initiated an action in the Sheriff court, north of the border, they would then have to apply to that court for out-of-jurisdiction service to issue proceedings against you in England - if it were ever to go that far.

My honest opinion is that it isn't going to happen any time soon and, in common with the vast majority of Scottish matters, you can safely ignore any more of the PPC's paperwork. The costs involved in issuing proceedings in these circumstances would be substantial. Not PPC has yet issued proceedings in a Scots court - regardless of the spoutings of various companies that make reference to such cases. To our knowledge there has only ever been one case relating to private parking heard in Scotland and that related to a case at Edinburgh University and did not involve a private parking company.

HTH

jnmann

OK, I've received a letter from my lease company as they've been contacted about the invoice request.

I read the Newbies thread ans can see the appeal text for England ONLY but nothing for Scotland. It actually says to ignore everything if in Scotland but I can't do this as the lease company are now involved.

Is there an appeal letter for Scotland please?

Many thanks :-)

Guys_Dad

No appeal letter for Scotland.

But here is the situation.

If you live in England and the PPC is English, they can serve court papers on you.

BUT

Keeper liability and POFA only applies to land in England & Wales.

So, the hirer needs to be told you are dealing with this and that they should follow POFA directions in the section re hirers. They also need to be advised that the contravention was in Scotland and that they can not be held for keeper liability.

You now need to contact the PPC and inform them that you were the keeper at the time but not the driver. You also tell them why keeper liability does not apply and that they should contact the driver, whoever that may have been.

Dee140157

But the most imperative thing is to deal with the lease company. You need to make sure they have not paid the PCN and charged you for the privelege of doing it.

If they have then you have a different battle on your hands and will need to show is the terms and conditions of your lease hire.

If they haven't then as Guys Dad says, you need to expressly tell them not to pay and that you are dealing with it. All they need to do is to pass on your details to the PPC if they absolutely must. However also make sure they know there is no keeper liability in Scotland.

If they charge you an admin charge for passing your details on it must be a fair charge so not eg £35 for the privelege as this would come under the UTCCRs .

And also as keeper appeal saying not responsible as driver.

Thereafter ignore any DRP letters etc which they will undoubtedly send.

jnmann

Many thanks guys, finding this all quite confusing so please bear with me :-)

I'll get in touch with the lease company, tell them NOT to pay anything to the PPC but they may pass on my address details as the registered keeper (not owner) and that the contravention was in Scotland and they can not be held for keeper liability.

I will also write to the PPC saying that I was the keeper at the time but not the driver and that they should contact the driver with regards to this invoice.

I guess I'll keep getting letters, how far should this go and can any further problems be brought upon the lease company? Am I right to tell the lease company that this invoice is not legal or just not enforceable?

Really keen to make sure I don't get any black marks on my credit file as i worked very hard for 7 years to get this back to perfect, would be a great shame to get anything on there now.

Is there anything else I need to put in any letter?

Appreciate everyone's input on this and thank you for bearing with me.

Dee140157

You absolutely will not get any black marks on your credit file.
To get this you must
A) be taken to court - they won't because there is no keeper liabilty and you are not driving
lose the case (which won't happen because you weren't the driver)
C) not pay the amount you are asked to pay within 28 days.

It's. to going to happen.

So do both, contact lease company to tell them you are writing to PPC and they are to do nothing.
Contact the PPC as keeper (not registered keeper).

You can use the template in newbie thread of you wish and add
As keeper of the vehicles but not driver I deny any debt to you.

Thereafter ignore any DRP letters as they will be all hot air and bluster.

PPCs in Scotland Don't do court!

jnmann

Thanks :-)

So I can still follow the...

I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis etc.

Making sure I state I am the keeper not the registered keeper?

jnmann

Just wanted to update this thread.

I sent the letter recorded delivery to the parking company. They have completely ignored this and passed the debt on to a debt company, upping the charge to £160 now.

I'm really concerned, having spend several years clearing debt and rebuilding an A1 credit history I'm worried this could go further.

Appreciate any advice at this stage please, thank you.

Guys_Dad

Suggest you Google "Debt Collector Powers" and confirm that they can do diddly squat on an unproven debt without getting a court order.