Distress warrant for criminal fine. Threatening to break in tomorrow. No payment plan

Larry123

Hi everyone.

Unfortunately my brother has found his way into a difficult situation. I am trying to help him the best I can but I have hit a bit of a brick wall.

Basically he received a fine of £745.00 for failing to give information relating to the identification of a driver. Basically didn't show his driving licence and documents at the station after being pulled over.

For various reasons, over the months, this fine hasn't been paid and it has now got to the stage where a distress warrant has been issued. At first I didn't think this was too bad and could be diplomatically resolved however the bailiff is insisting they ARE allowed to force entry tomorrow as this is a criminal matter and not a civil one. I asked him several times and he said that he has definitely been given permission. He agreed that if it was a civil matter, he wouldn't be able to.

I have tried to set up a generous offer of £150/month to clear the total amount outstanding of £1045, but he is refusing to accept it and says full payment must be taken today or the warrant will be enforced tomorrow.

Could anyone give any advice as to what to do next? I told him the call was being recorded (it was) and asked him to verify that he could break into the house, so I assume he is in possession of the actual warrant which would allow him to do this. I also know they do not have to accept offers.

Any help, much appreciated.

Thanks

Tixy

Can't offer much advice on criminal fines - might be worth giving national debtline a call to see if they could offer any advice? (their website recommends calling them for advice on https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/13%20EW%20Magistrates%27%20court%20fines/Page-04.aspx)

I believe they should only force entry as a last resort, but I am not sure what would be classed as a last resort and if brother has ignored previous correspondance then it could be that they will take this action.

Is brother not in a position to pay more than the £150 a month offered? not even if he stops payments to any none priority debts/expenditure?

Is brother living on his own?

Larry123

Tixy wrote: »

Can't offer much advice on criminal fines - might be worth giving national debtline a call to see if they could offer any advice? (their website recommends calling them for advice on https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/13%20EW%20Magistrates%27%20court%20fines/Page-04.aspx)

I believe they should only force entry as a last resort, but I am not sure what would be classed as a last resort and if brother has ignored previous correspondance then it could be that they will take this action.

Is brother not in a position to pay more than the £150 a month offered? not even if he stops payments to any none priority debts/expenditure?

Is brother living on his own?

Unfortunately £150 is the max, truth be told, £50 of that is my money, and I cannot scrape any more than that as I have even worse debts

He is living in a furnished house share with 3 other people, nothing in the house of any value is his. We have told the bailiff this but he says he will take anything and if it does not belong to my brother then the owners will have to take receipts to court in order to get the goods back. If they do not have receipts then tough etc.

It seems true that it is rare that the bailiff with force entry on their first attempt but not unheard of. I have just spoken to the courts who have confirmed that they definitely have the right to force entry. Their warrant allows this.

Update while replying

The court have just been in touch to inform me that the only way out, or at least a way to delay bailiff action would be to appeal to the crown court on the magistrates court decision to refuse reopening the case. My brother tried to have the case reopened in December due to previously missing a court date due to correspondence being sent to the wrong address. It is a little frustrating because he should have made a statuary declaration at this point, not asked to have the case reopened. The reason the case was not reopened was something to do with it not being in the interest of justice.

I am now going to make this appeal to the crown court and drop it in by hand to the magistrates in the next hour. They will then suspend the bailiff, although I'm not too sure what I need to be putting in this appeal, hopefully there is a template somewhere.

Really not what I have planned for my monday afternoon on a day off :P Unfortunately my brother is at work and cannot get away so I am left with no choice.

Thanks again

fatbelly

I would have thought the way forward would be a means enquiry hearing.

That will set the payment rate at a level he can afford. You should not have to pay his fine.

I note the Newham site explains the procedure:

http://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/ServiceChild/Stage-5-How-do-I-deal-with-priority-debts-Magistrates-Court-fines.aspx

Yes the bailiff can force entry on this one so let him come in and list goods if he wants to - he is unlikely to remove anything. Obviously keep cars parked elsewhere for the moment

stevemLS

Mate, just about all that could go wrong here has done.

The bad news is that you are very unlikely to be able to appeal to the Crown Court, there is a strict time limit of 21 days unless you can show very good reason why you need an extension.

Only the Crown Court can give an extension.

The enforcement officer cannot enter into an arrangement to pay, only the Court can agree that.

The further bad news, sorry, is that if it remains unpaid the magistrates can commit to prison in default.

I agree that the best thing is to let them in and list goods - they won't actually take anything away at this stage. I believe that your brother can then make application for time to pay but he needs to get on with it.

Larry123

Thanks.

Unfortunately my brother is not very wise and we as a family, mostly myself as I don't like to involve my parents, are constantly having to clean up his mess. If it weren't for the fact that he is living in a house belonging to his parents, and most of the stuff in there belongs to them, I would let him learn his lesson as I am absolutely fed up with looking after him.

Never the less, I managed to get the appeal in before close today and the courts asked to call tomorrow late morning to get some idea of a conclusion. Although the appeal may be declined, the magistrates court said they would be willing to put the bailiffs on hold while we await a verdict. In the mean time, we shall work towards an enquiry hearing.

The bailiff explained his does not have to list goods and is authorised to remove goods immediately. He has explained that this is what they will be doing tomorrow afternoon unless something happens. Is it likely he is bluffing at this stage? The bailiff is very approachable going off my experience with many others. He's been very straight with me and I don't fancy calling his bluff.

Hopefully things will be put on hold, if not, I see no option but to get the money together as a family to pay this fine. The general consensus is that he has had nearly a year to make arrangements for payment and obviously there is only so much give.

Very frustrating. So angry with him its unreal.

stevemLS

It really is quite complicated.

The powers of the enforcement agent are in Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/15/schedule/12

They are further amplified in the Criminal Procedure Rules, here:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/2012/crim-proc-rules-2013-part-52.pdf

See Rule 52.8 (4) which, on the face of it, says that unless the court orders otherwise, the goods may not be taken until the day of the sale.

The only thing that bothers me is whether in fact you do know the full history of the matter and whether there has been any previous visits and the bailiff does in fact intend to remove for sale tomorrow.

I just can't see how the Crown Court will even entertain a request for an appeal at this stage, given that the Magistrates Court declined to reopen the matter 7 months ago.

Presumably they gave you the form for the appeal, if not it is here http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/crimpr-part63-appealnotice.pdf I wouldn't begin to know how to complete it in your particular circumstances.

fatbelly

Larry123 wrote: »

The bailiff explained his does not have to list goods and is authorised to remove goods immediately. He has explained that this is what they will be doing tomorrow afternoon unless something happens. Is it likely he is bluffing at this stage? The bailiff is very approachable going off my experience with many others. He's been very straight with me and I don't fancy calling his bluff.

He'll know from experience that if he puts enough pressure on, the cash will appear.

I've been with the CAB for 14 years now and I've yet to come across a bailiff removing goods. I don't think tomorrow will be the first time. What would he remove that would net 745 (plus bailiff fees) at auction?

Incidentally, the fees before removal of goods are now fixed at £310 so I expect that will be added on to the 745.

Larry123

Yeh, its beginning to look like we're just going to be paying it tomorrow. The whole situation is ridiculous, and you're right, as far as I know, the bailiff has already been round a levied the entire house.

Haha, youre right, I had no idea where to start with the appeal. At the end of the day, there isnt really an excuse. No medical issues, nothing. Just sheer laziness, so I didn't have much to go on. I didn't use that form for the appeal but put something together with what information I had at the time. I didn't get it to the court until 4.30 so it was a bit of a rush job. Just wanted to get something in to hopefully have the bailiffs put on hold, even if the appeal is a load of rubbish

Thanks for the help guys. I feel like I am wasting people time with this one as the situation is the result of laziness and stupidity. As I said, if it wasn't going to effect my parents, I'd let him learn the hard way like I have had to.

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

stevemLS

Best of luck.

I would have had little, if any, sympathy, by the way, if it was your brother posting - in many ways, he is a lucky guy.

FireWyrm

If it had been my brother...I'd have left him twisting in the wind. I'm sure this episode will make for an extra frosty Christmas this year.