National rate on shift allowance..

Atomic_guy

I was wondering if someone knows this information about national rate paid
for engineers on split shift or if anything of that sort exist?

Thanks for your help in advance.

ohreally

No national rate - how would this work across employers/ sectors?

cazziebo

There isn't such a thing as a national rate - and it's increasingly unusual for enhanced shift rates to be paid.

The Engineering Employers' Federation publish average salaries per area and job role and will sometimes include info on bonuses and shift allowances.

Atomic_guy

ohreally wrote: »

No national rate - how would this work across employers/ sectors?

We were offered 15% uplift on our salary if we do the suggested shift
pattern (6-2:30 and 2-10.30. As we have never done any shift work
before on that site and accepting 15% will set a presidence across the
site. I spoke to a union rep from our other site and he suggested we
should be paid a national standard rate of 17.5% minimum? I searched the internet
for this information but with out any success. No one joined the union
from our site and I was told that we will be offered much less since we
do not have any union?

The management offering 15% uplift based on our other site as they have been doing shift work there for a while. But we think that is not the whole story, We were told that the rate they pay to the guys at our other site is much more.
So I took the advice of the Union rep so currently negotiating for 17.5% but the management wants evidence where and how? But the people who said the rate they getting at other site is much more do not want to get involved. So I am not able to use them as evidence.

Other option is to join the union and let them negotiate the rate of 17.5%? Are they able to use examples from other site to get a deal for my site?

ohreally

Atomic_guy wrote: »

We were told that the rate they pay to the guys at our other site is much more

This should be the focus of your attention as this could negatively impact on your pension as well.

Atomic_guy wrote: »

But the people who said the rate they getting at other site is much more do not want to get involved. So I am not able to use them as evidence

You need to obtain facts and figures rather than hearsay. You are unlikely to progress on this basis. It will help your case considerably if you can demonstrate this.

Why are your site not union members (suspecting Unite) given there is a recognition agreement and you are already losing out? This makes no sense.

Atomic_guy wrote: »

Other option is to join the union and let them negotiate the rate of 17.5%? Are they able to use examples from other site to get a deal for my site?

See above. Get the membership form submitted and contact a full time officer to get on the case.

patman99

Ask the management what the other site gets as a shift allowance. If you are all part of the same company then you should all get the same pay for the same job.

As for national rate, I certainly have not heard about such a thing.

One company I worked at paid n/s a 9% allowance. Another company who ran a 3-shift system paid different hourly rates according to the shift ranging from (2012 rates) £10.75 for the 6-2 shift through £12.75 for the 2-10 shift and then £15.75 for the 10-6 shift.

My B-in-Law used to work a 1-21.15 shift for an extra 11% allowance (print industry). So as you can see, there is quite a difference.

comeandgo

It is the federation that will have rates but they usually only give this info out to paid up companies, not individuals . Also a company can pay different rates to different employees doing the same job, as long as the difference is not discrimination. Age, time at company and prior experience can all count.

Gingernutty

Atomic_guy wrote: »

We were offered 15% uplift on our salary if we do the suggested shift pattern (6-2:30 and 2-10.30).

As we have never done any shift work before on that site and accepting 15% will set a [STRIKE]presidence[/STRIKE] precedent across the site. I spoke to a union rep from our other site and he suggested we should be paid a national standard rate of 17.5% minimum?

I searched the internet for this information but with out any success. No one joined the union from our site and I was told that we will be offered much less since we do not have any union?

The management offering 15% uplift based on our other site as they have been doing shift work there for a while.

But we think that is not the whole story, We were told that the rate they pay to the guys at our other site is much more.

So I took the advice of the Union rep so currently negotiating for 17.5% but the management wants evidence where and how?

But the people who said the rate they getting at other site is much more do not want to get involved. So I am not able to use them as evidence.

Other option is to join the union and let them negotiate the rate of 17.5%? Are they able to use examples from other site to get a deal for my site?

There are no national shift rates - from what you say the Union rep said, he sounds like he doesn't have a clue.

You want to enter negotiations with no evidence that your company are paying 17.5% to anyone based on some hearsay evidence that no one is prepared to back up.

Where I come from, the shift allowance is 12.5% if working regular shifts, night shifts pay more again.

Why did no one join the union at your site? Why are the two sites so different? What happens if you can't negotiate a settlement?

Atomic_guy

Gingernutty wrote: »

There are no national shift rates - from what you say the Union rep said, he sounds like he doesn't have a clue.

You want to enter negotiations with no evidence that your company are paying 17.5% to anyone based on some hearsay evidence that no one is prepared to back up.

Where I come from, the shift allowance is 12.5% if working regular shifts, night shifts pay more again.

Why did no one join the union at your site? Why are the two sites so different? What happens if you can't negotiate a settlement?

Well I took the advice from a union rep and based our argument on that
but the more people I talk to now it seems the advice received wasn't so
accurate.

Our site was quite small only dozens of people working, so no one really
paid much attention to trade union, but the site is growing and so has the
number of managers, hence more bureaucracy and politics. So people
are starting to think how to deal with management what they can impose
and what is within the legal limit. Talking to the guys around the premises
I found only one guy have got trade union membership out of about 60
people there.

Now I have joined, hopefully few others will follow or at least guys in my
team and that is about 9 of us will likely to join. Only our team has been
asked to do the shift pattern and depending on how it all goes well it might
be rolled out to the other teams. We were consulted about the shift
pattern and we were told that it was our wishes of we to do the shift
pattern. So if the negotiated rate is not agreed at 17.5% then we can
reject the shift pattern. But I dont know how the management will view
this?

You are right, we should not have stated it should be in line with our
other site as we do not know what they are getting.

So that I have now joined the trade union, do I get immediate support from them?

System

If you are all part of the same company then you should all get the same pay for the same job.

The company can have different rates for different people, sites etc. Providing it doesn't fall into the realms of discrimination they can negotiate separate rates for each person if they so wish.

ohreally

Atomic_guy wrote: »

So that I have now joined the trade union, do I get immediate support from them?

Yes, and get stewards elected and a health and safety rep appointed.