Flexible working justification

Claree__x

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

For those saying 'what if's' about people that care...well at the end of the day it's not really the OP's issue and it shouldn't stop the OP applying when they have a right to.

Exactly!

Should people in employment not apply for other jobs because there are unemployed people who need them? The OP has the right to request flexible working so shouldn't feel guilty about it.

cazziebo

To be fair, the reason other employees might seek flexible working is not the responsibility of the OP. The new law extends the right to request to all employees, not just those with caring responsibilities.

It's wrong to label someone as selfish because their reason is to pursue a hobby, chill out, study or help out at their kids' school. If granting the request makes the employee happier and therefore probably more loyal and productive then everyone in the company benefits.

The more the request is phrased in the manner of a business case, the more likely it will be considered favourably.

(FWIW, I think the law is a nonsense. Any good employer would consider a reasonable request whether there was a law or not.)

Gavin83

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Ah the law of unintended consequences.

Of course you do realise that if you get this then someone who has caring responsibilities may be denied their request because of business needs?

Like it or not the change in law now suggests those with caring responsibilities are no longer the priority when it comes to flexible working.

I do believe that this new law makes no difference what so ever but on the surface that is the impression it gives.

Ozzuk

KentishLady wrote: »

This in spades.

How are you going to feel if you get your flexible working request granted, and then one of your colleagues has their flexible working request refused when they are struggling with caring responsibilities (eg caring for a parent with altzheimers, or a partner who has terminal cancer, or a child who has a limited lifespan). Would you then offer to go back to your old working pattern? You wouldnt because you probably wouldn't even know their request had been refused until they were signed off sick or resigned because they could no longer juggle their responsibilities.

I am a carer and I work full time. My previous employer allowed me to work 4 compressed days per week - this allowed me to spend one day per week doing all the household chores, shopping, paying bills etc and meant I could devote 2 days per week to support my husband access the community activities. BUT I was flexible, I worked from home on my "at home" day when required, I changed my "at home" day to meet business needs and so on.

My current job role requires 5 days per week cover during office hours so I cannot request a 4 day compressed working week (or 9 day fortnight which is our equivalent). I'll be honest, I am shattered from juggling my work and my home-life. I still think myself lucky that I have negotiated a flexible working week - when we are busy I work longer days so that when I need to take one of my carees to a hospital appointment (or if I am desperate need of a day off during the week to rest) I can book TOIL to release me using the same process we use to book a days leave.

Whilst you have a right to requet flexible working, from where I am sitting your reasons for requesting it are on the face of it selfish. I think your employer has every right to ask what the benefits are to you (i.e. the reason you are asking for it) as well as to them. Apart from anything else they have a duty of care to you so if you were asking for flexible working due to a caring role - they would want to know so they can support you. It also may mean becuase you are not in a caring role that they would only allow you to do so on the understanding you reverted to 5 days per week working when required to do so.

Your reasons for wanting a compressed 4 day week could be easily met by a flexible working day where you agree to available within certain core hours, working longer and shorter days as required to a) meet the needs of the business and b) release you from work to go to your Drs appointments etc.

Or by working from home one day per week - you would still be available to your employer, you could still get your washing done, nip to the doctors etc but they would still have you available 5 days per week.

KL.

I can see why you feel that, however this is pretty indicative of one of our problems in society where we don't want someone to have something just because we can't.

If the legislation (and I haven't looked at it) says anyone can request it and its based on business justification and not personal justification (which actually surprises me) then sure, why not. Improving the work/life balance can actually greatly help reduce stress and increase productivity and therefore can result in a net gain for the employee and employer. Its also a step change in attitudes, a move from draconian ideas that you have to be in the office all hours irrespective of what you are actually achieving.

And this isn't a personal attack on you, I'd probably be a little miffed too as its the way we a programmed, but I also see the bigger picture.

justanopinion

I was on the ACAS course for this yesterday.


You do not have to give the reason for wanting to make the request, but if you do during a meeting, the employer can consider it. So, if someone requests flexible working and says they need it for childcare and it is refused, even using one of the 8 business reasons, they could still claim it as discriminatory if they chose to pursue it. Depending on the reason given.


Now that flexible working is open to all, it is actually better for an employer to not know the reason for the request. That is why it has been removed from the ACAS form. It means an employer is just looking at the job and can it be done part-time, flexi, compressed etc.


Every case should only be considered on the business merits, not personal. That may seem unfair, (and of course I am coming from the HR side on this), but to be fair to ALL employees, the reason for the request is not relevant.


(Though if you are requesting flexible working as part of reasonable adjustment for a disability under the EA2010, and clearly writing it, would must likely guarantee you priority)

I-W

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Which president? Lincoln?

Sorry dyslexic but always good to have someone point out my mistakes in a sarcastic manner.

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Aside from that, why not just tow the line and do it, do you really want to put your managers back up and make it more difficult for yourself?

Yes I could sit back, tow the line keep my head down and wonder in 30 years time where my life has gone. Or I could try and get a reasonable work/life balance now.

I-W

!!!!!! wrote: »

But it may also be a reason to not allow anyone else to only do a 4 day week - I.E. bums on seats each day.

Don't think that would be a arguable reason as most have different days off from the one I have requested.

I-W

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Ah the law of unintended consequences.

Of course you do realise that if you get this then someone who has caring responsibilities may be denied their request because of business needs?

KentishLady wrote: »

This in spades.

How are you going to feel if you get your flexible working request granted, and then one of your colleagues has their flexible working request refused when they are struggling with caring responsibilities (eg caring for a parent with altzheimers, or a partner who has terminal cancer, or a child who has a limited lifespan). Would you then offer to go back to your old working pattern? You wouldnt because you probably wouldn't even know their request had been refused until they were signed off sick or resigned because they could no longer juggle their responsibilities.

I am a carer and I work full time. My previous employer allowed me to work 4 compressed days per week - this allowed me to spend one day per week doing all the household chores, shopping, paying bills etc and meant I could devote 2 days per week to support my husband access the community activities. BUT I was flexible, I worked from home on my "at home" day when required, I changed my "at home" day to meet business needs and so on.

My current job role requires 5 days per week cover during office hours so I cannot request a 4 day compressed working week (or 9 day fortnight which is our equivalent). I'll be honest, I am shattered from juggling my work and my home-life. I still think myself lucky that I have negotiated a flexible working week - when we are busy I work longer days so that when I need to take one of my carees to a hospital appointment (or if I am desperate need of a day off during the week to rest) I can book TOIL to release me using the same process we use to book a days leave.

Whilst you have a right to requet flexible working, from where I am sitting your reasons for requesting it are on the face of it selfish. I think your employer has every right to ask what the benefits are to you (i.e. the reason you are asking for it) as well as to them. Apart from anything else they have a duty of care to you so if you were asking for flexible working due to a caring role - they would want to know so they can support you. It also may mean becuase you are not in a caring role that they would only allow you to do so on the understanding you reverted to 5 days per week working when required to do so.

Your reasons for wanting a compressed 4 day week could be easily met by a flexible working day where you agree to available within certain core hours, working longer and shorter days as required to a) meet the needs of the business and b) release you from work to go to your Drs appointments etc.

Or by working from home one day per week - you would still be available to your employer, you could still get your washing done, nip to the doctors etc but they would still have you available 5 days per week.

KL.

A reasonable point by both of you, although that should have been thought through by the government before bringing this new rule in not left to those who want to make requests to consider.


That probably makes me sound quite selfish but I don't think I should have to feel guilty for a situation which might possibly occur at some point in the future or not. The company I work in works on long term projects and most of my department rarely meet clients, so it should be the prefect place for flexible working and one person getting it shouldn't mean others can't. I could understand it would be different in a customer facing role, but that's not the situation I'm in.

I-W

getmore4less wrote: »

are any 4 days are fine eg Mon,Tue,Thur,Fri.

Also you do realise you will only get 4/5 of the holiday allowance.

For a 28day allowance where you normaly get 8 bh allocated and 20 free days.

in 2014 with a wed off schedule that would be 22.4 days with 7 allocated 15.4 free

Thanks, had considered that (although trying to get Friday off) however although fewer holidays still overall fewer work days over the year.

I-W

cazziebo wrote: »

The more the request is phrased in the manner of a business case, the more likely it will be considered favourably.

Thanks, will bare that in mind when eventually get my meeting to discuss with HR.