Halifax refusing to put me on new product

Bellabella_2

I am having problems with the Halifax constantly moving the goal posts re my getting onto a new product since the last one expired in February. In January, they sent me a letter warning me that my product was about to expire and inviting me to call them to discuss getting on a new one. So I called and arranged to go on a 2 year product. They sent me the relevant papers, and I signed them and sent them back. All done and dusted....you'd think. Then they set me a letter telling me my new payment at their SVR was due at the end of the month. I called them to say there had been mistake as I was now on a new product. They said I couldn't go on a new product as I was in arrears and basically bye bye.... I argued with them for hours until they acknowledged they'd made a mistake and compensated me financially. But they still wouldn't put me on a new product. Last week, I was finally able to pay off the arrears (due to my kind parents!). I called the Halifax a few days later to get onto a product, the one they had put me on months earlier by mistake, only to be told they cannot put me on a new product as my mortgage term runs into my retirement, post 65, by just two years, and I can't prove how I'll pay my mortgage at that time. They say they can shorten the term to get around that, which is fine with me, but then they say I'd have to prove that I can afford to pay my mortgage now, which I can't as I'm on a low income (but have assured family help to bridge the gap). They say they REALLY want to help me but the new rules in place since April mean their hands are tied. The only option is to keep me on their SVR, which I can clearly afford less than the product they say they can't put me on as I can't afford it!!!! That makes no sense to me and would seem to go against the FCA guidelines re good practice/customer service. I've spoken with the FCA, and they say their Mortgage Review does not stipulate the details of how their rules re more responsible lending should be implemented and it's up to the lender to decide upon these. So the post retirement criteria the Halifax are referring to is of their own making not the FCA's, as they are implying it is. The FCA also said that they stipulate in the Review that there should be flexibility for customers who already have a mortgage. I can understand mortgage lenders being more careful about lending to new customers. But for those of us who have already borrowed from them, assessing whether we can afford our mortgages then refusing to put us on a product that would make the mortgage more affordable and charging us their top interest rate if we can't provide evidence to satisfy them seems plain daft and very unethical. IMO the Halifax are being deliberately obstructive and using the new guidelines to keep me, and I assume others, on their SVR. Any advice would be welcome, and I'd be interested to hear if others are having similar problems. I'd LOVE to leave them btw, but with my current financial circumstances, there's no way I'd qualify for a loan from another lender. I've also considered selling and buying property with the equity I have in the house, which may be just do-able. But I'd have to move way out of the area, and I really want to stay here for now as I am close to my elderly parents.

Leon_W

To be honest, there isn't much in that I disagree with.


Their hands are certainly not tied by recent MMR changes OR the FCA. Affordability has to be assessed when you first take it out, fair enough, however, how many people are going to be able to comply with affordability criteria throughout the whole mortgage term ? Not many. The Halifax seem to be making it up as they go along as how is it even conceivable that a more expensive mortgage is more affordable than a cheaper one ?? Ridiculous.

Bellabella_2

Re proving I can pay my mortgage post 65, well, I do expect to have been able to pay off my mortgage with inheritance money by then. If not, I guess I'll still be working to pay it off, or if I have an outstanding debt I really can't afford to pay, I'll just move to a property that I can purchase with the equity. I plan to do that as soon as possible anyway so I can be mortgage and Halifax-stress free.

dunstonh

Whilst I sympathise with your situation, Halifax appear to be taking the view that any adjustment to mortgage term requires affordability checks under their current criteria. The wording for the MMR could be interpreted that way as you are no longer adjusting an existing mortgage interest rate but changing the contract which increases the monthly payment and they have to be satisified you can afford that. Not just at the short term rate but also at the rate you could end up on when the deal expires.

Part of the problem with the regulator is that it rarely sets what must or must not be done. It sets guidelines that are left to interpretation and it can take a year or two for follow up feedback from the regulator along with fines and regulatory action for interpreting it wrong to decide what was right.

Bellabella_2

But I am not ASKING for an adjustment to the mortgage term! I am not ASKING for a different contract. They refuse to give me a product whilst the term takes me to 67 years and into retirement (though I have no plans to retire on my 65th birthday!). They are saying the only way around that is to reduce the term and then their criteria for affordability kick in. I already have a mortgage with them. They've already loaned me the money. Now they are making it as hard as possible for me to pay it back, and they don't have to do that.

ACG

I can understand why they do not want to tie you into a new deal.

A recent history of arrears, only paid off so you can get a new product?
If they tie you in to a new deal and you went in to arrears again to the point of repossession, then you would be in a worse position as you would have to pay Early Repayment Charges on top.

They cant accept family will help as a form of ensuring payments will be made as there is no contract to ensure that does happen.

Added to that you were in arrears until they told you the only way to get a new deal would be to clear them.

On a side note, have you told them you will be working until your 67 or however old? My state retirement age is 68 I think.

Bellabella_2

Yes, arrears paid off (by my parents, who I have tried not to involve in this) so I can get a new product, pay less per month and KEEP MY HOME! Whether the Halifax give me a product or not, I already have a mortgage with them and the possibility of going into arrears again is stronger if they are charging me more each month. If they want to help me avoid that, they ought to put me on a deal.

My main issue is the moving goal posts: no product while you're in arrears (due to losing my job and a big drop in income.... am I alone in that?), then no product because the mortgage term runs into your retirement, then no product because you don't on paper earn enough to pay the mortgage. What next?

The FCA say:



"There are transitional provisions in the MMR that allow lenders to provide a new mortgage or deal to customers with existing loans who may not meet the new MMR requirements for the loan. The borrowing is not able to exceed the amount of their current loan, unless funding is required for essential repairs. The decision on whether or not to lend in these cases remains with the lender."

Yes, I have told them I have no plans to retire at 65.

dunstonh

I am not ASKING for a different contract.

You are asking for a change to your contract.

They refuse to give me a product whilst the term takes me to 67 years and into retirement (though I have no plans to retire on my 65th birthday!).

If you can show them your state pension age is 67 (which it may well be) and your planning is based on 67 then they should go with it as age 65 will not be your retirement age. Google state pension calculator and it will tell you your state pension age/date.

The FCA say:

"There are transitional provisions in the MMR that allow lenders to provide a new mortgage or deal to customers with existing loans who may not meet the new MMR requirements for the loan. The borrowing is not able to exceed the amount of their current loan, unless funding is required for essential repairs. The decision on whether or not to lend in these cases remains with the lender."

So, you can see that the Halifax are not doing anything wrong.

Show them your state pension age and go with that as your solution.

Bellabella_2

In what way am I ASKING for a change in the contract????? I'm happy with it as it is i.e. a term running until I'm 67.

Well, in terms of doing things wrong, first they put me on a product then told me I wasn't eligible for it. Then they told me if I paid off the arrears I would be eligible. Then they told me I wasn't because the term ran into my retirement. That's good business practice? They have also said the hands are tied due to the MMR, but that's not true, and I have that from the FCA. They can play this however they want to as I am an existing customer. That's doing something wrong.

ACG

Your contract says fixed rate for however long then SVR.

You want to come off SVR on to a new deal - that is the change in contract.

dunstonh

In what way am I ASKING for a change in the contract????? I'm happy with it as it is i.e. a term running until I'm 67.

if you are fine with how it is then stay on the SVR to 67. However, you wish to change the contract buy buying a new mortgage rate.

Well, in terms of doing things wrong, first they put me on a product then told me I wasn't eligible for it. Then they told me if I paid off the arrears I would be eligible. Then they told me I wasn't because the term ran into my retirement. That's good business practice? They have also said the hands are tied due to the MMR, but that's not true, and I have that from the FCA. They can play this however they want to as I am an existing customer. That's doing something wrong.

The FCA set guidelines for firms to interpret. it does not tell them what they must or must not do. It leaves them ot decide how they fit with those guidelines and you have already verified that in post #7. So, no point arguing that point any more. They interpret the MMR guidelines as they see fit. You know that as you have been told that by the FCA. Time for you to accept that even if you dont like it.

They say they dont want the mortgage to run into retirement. You say are not retiring at 65 but 67 (maybe 68). Ask them where they have got this 65 age from. State pension age is not 65 for you. 65 means absolutely nothing to you. if they still enforce the 65 age then you complain telling them your actual state pension age. Hence why you find out what your actual state pension age is.