Bailiffs - please help

sugar9

Hello my husband and I currently have debts of about £20,000 due to my husband losing his job on several occasions and other reasons and have recently spoken to stepchange regarding possible bankruptcy. We have sent out financial statements to everyone including the bailiffs (Phoenix) regarding Council tax owing. We have now had another visit from Phoenix today with a letter stating they will remove my car tomorrow if no payment is made (its only worth about £300). Is it against the law to change ownership of my car to my mum? Or possibly move the car elsewhere?

Hope someone can advise us we aren't sleeping and dread the phone ringing, letters arriving and someone knocking on our door.

Thank you.

BillJones

How would it help you to give the car away to someone else? If you are willing to give it away, then let it be taken as at least a partial payment for your debts.

sugar9

Hi Bill Jones, I was going to put in my mum's name to stop it being taken away. I need my car for hospital visits etc.

kaya

If the bailiffs haven't listed your car or " levied distress" upon it then you can hide it or sell/give it away as you can with all of your posessions , once listed it is the property of the court. You write out a " declaration of ownership " and get the signature witnessed by a solicitor/notary public or court official which in legal terms means you don't own anything , the bailiffs can not ignore it once witnessed and signed as it tells them legally that you ( the person named on the writ) doesn't own anything there , taking stuff that doesn't belong to the person named on the writ is common theft . If the car hasn't been levied on you can also hide it somewhere

ETA the log book states clearly that the person named is the registered keeper and not nessecarily the owner, you need to show them a receipt to say your mum owns it, they will insist that they can take it until you do, the onus is on you to prove you don't own it it's not their job to check and they will assume its yours until proven different ( quite legally)

sugar9

Hello Kaya thank you for your reply. Today's letter from the bailiffs states goods viewed for potential removal and the reg number. Does that mean they can take it or can I still hide it? Forgot to say the letter is addressed to my husband as the council tax bill is in his name for some reason.

sourcrates

sugar9 wrote: »

Hello Kaya thank you for your reply. Today's letter from the bailiffs states goods viewed for potential removal and the reg number. Does that mean they can take it or can I still hide it? Forgot to say the letter is addressed to my husband as the council tax bill is in his name for some reason.

"Potential removal", Potential been the key work, means it hasn't happened yet.


Hide it pronto before jonnie bailiff comes calling again

kaya

As far as I know anything listed for removal has to be noted on a " walk in posession" sheet and you have to sign it , hide the car where they won't find it so you want it a few streets away at the least, do NOT answer the door to them and make sure you have windows shut and doors locked when they call, feel free to talk to them( or pull faces at them) from an upstairs window . The fact that it is for council tax gives them exemption from trespass laws but nowhere have they got permission to break and enter providing you haven't already allowed them in to list property ( they have to be allowed in to do that they can't list things through windows) They will huff and puff a bit but will give up and leave quite fast as they dont get paid to stand there and chat, after 3 or 4 visits they are deemed as unsuccessfull and will return the debt to the court as unsatisfied . This means they don't get paid a bean and all the trumped up bailiff charges they have added are removed from the debt . If they start trying to bully or threaten you tell them you will not hesitate to file a form four complaint against them in the local court if you feel intimidated . The action of a form four means their licence to work gets revoked immediately until they have been before a judge and explained their actions, which means they can't work for a while, I would also be pointing a mobile phone at them recording if you do decide to talk to them , you are perfectly entitled to record any interview with any official in order to " document" the event

sugar9

thank you so much for your advice it means a lot. Will be hiding my car pronto and will not be leaving windows open and doors unlocked.

kaya

They can enter through an unlocked door or window or climb a fence but they cannot force entry , hope you get stuff sorted

CIS

They can enter through an unlocked door or window or climb a fence but they cannot force entry , hope you get stuff sorted

The laws changed in April 14, since then they can only use a normal route of entry in to a property (the definition has been tightened up) - the enforcement agency's I have heard from have been of the general opinion that this rules out climbing fences etc or going through windows.

As far as I know anything listed for removal has to be noted on a " walk in possession" sheet and you have to sign it

It's now called 'taking control of goods' - it doesn't have to be signed. A signature is only part of the agreement that the enforcement agent has left the goods on the premises but has taken control of them (plus a signature is always a good idea).

To take control of goods an enforcement agent must do one of the following—

(a)secure the goods on the premises on which he finds them;
(b)if he finds them on a highway, secure them on a highway, where he finds them or within a reasonable distance;
(c)remove them and secure them elsewhere;
(d)enter into a controlled goods agreement with the debtor.

kaya

Thanks for the update CIS , I was aware of changes but not exactly what they were, it's also interesting to note that with the exception of council tax debts where the "enforcement officers" have been given exemption from Trespass prosecution the bailiffs are ordered by the court to collect money or goods in lieu of , nowhere are they given permission to break the law and trespass . If you tell a bailiff to leave your property before he has listed any goods he has to comply , anybody who enters your property has an implied right of access which means that a delivery man, meter reader, postie etc. can go about their daily business without fear of prosecution, however if you remove this right of access from an individual or corporation they are then committing trespass upon entry . This is easily confirmed as correct by the simple fact that in the case of collecting council tax arrears the court has given the bailiffs exemption from prosecution of trespass which they wouldn't have done otherwise. If they have listed property previously however they can use force to enter to remove said property as is the law . It's also worth noting that a bailiff has to give you the opertunity to settle the debt before listing goods so any bailiff who tries to subvert the trespass by stating that he has already clamped or listed your vehicle before offering you the chance to settle the debt is in breech of his codes of conduct. A bailiffs code of conduct also prevents them from harassing " vulnerable" people , this includes disabled and poor people so if you are disabled or in receipt of benefits tell them so , show them some documentation and inform them you will be filing a form four against them for breech of conduct if they do not leave immediately , when you know the rules bailiffs have to adhere to they are like a dog with no teeth , all noise !