BOE Governor "housing has deep problems"

Graham_Devon

ukcarper wrote: »

The bad parts were the only parts reported and many were perfectly fine. People who are against council housing always assume that council housing would be bad while it should be possible to use the better practices for any future housing.

I don't understand why some insists on assuming we'd do everything the same again, knowingly making all the same mistakes again.

I mean, I don't trust the government to get everything right, but equally, I don't assume they would simply dust off the plans for council housing int he 60's and do everything the same way again.

We know what the mistakes were, we can now avoid them. Others will be made, but the same can be said of everything.

We'd never achieve anything in the country if we simply scrapped everything as it had some problems first time around.

CLAPTON

Bantex wrote: »

Some were good, some were bad. Most were built to a higher spec than many new build private homes currently under construction.

yes that is true
many are well built and tend to be more spacious than comparable new builds today

thorsoak

Generali wrote: »

Hell no, the councils of Britain showed themselves to be utterly incapable of maintaining or building homes in the 1960s and 70s.

Provide land with planning permission for builders and they'll provide houses that people want to buy. Everyone else manages it.

Parker Morris standards were introduced in 1961, which set a higher standard as basic for all local authority built housing and at that time, no private builder could or would build to that standard. Sizes were slightly better, electrical installation regarding power points and lights were of a higher standard, as was insulation - which was missing in privately-built housing in the early 60s and was an optional extra.

Under Thatcher Parker Morris was gradually side-lined, but now I understand that Boris is bringing it back in housebuilding for all new builds in London.

CLAPTON

thorsoak wrote: »

Parker Morris standards were introduced in 1961, which set a higher standard as basic for all local authority built housing and at that time, no private builder could or would build to that standard. Sizes were slightly better, electrical installation regarding power points and lights were of a higher standard, as was insulation - which was missing in privately-built housing in the early 60s and was an optional extra.

Under Thatcher Parker Morris was gradually side-lined, but now I understand that Boris is bringing it back in housebuilding for all new builds in London.

really NO PRIVATE BUILDER.... do you have a reference for that?


and do you have a reference for Boris bringing them back?
one would certainly hope that minimum insulation standards were much higher today.

Generali

thorsoak wrote: »

Parker Morris standards were introduced in 1961, which set a higher standard as basic for all local authority built housing and at that time, no private builder could or would build to that standard. Sizes were slightly better, electrical installation regarding power points and lights were of a higher standard, as was insulation - which was missing in privately-built housing in the early 60s and was an optional extra.

Under Thatcher Parker Morris was gradually side-lined, but now I understand that Boris is bringing it back in housebuilding for all new builds in London.

Interesting that Nationwide and also the local news regularly used to cover people living in damp ridden council flats if construction was so good.

I also wonder why you can't get a normal mortgage on so many ex-council flats. You couldn't even in the days when any bum on the streets could get a 125% mortgage.

thorsoak

CLAPTON wrote: »

really NO PRIVATE BUILDER.... do you have a reference for that?


and do you have a reference for Boris bringing them back?
one would certainly hope that minimum insulation standards were much higher today.

In 1963, when we were buying our first house, my OH's cousin was a building surveyor. We bought a new house, on a new estate from a reputable builder - which is still going strong today (not Wimpey or Bovis!) OH's cousin told us about Parker Morris standards, and when we asked the company we were told that for the money we were paying (£3,200) we could not expect more than one power plug per room, no central heating, no insulation - these were all extras. At the same time my sister and her partner got their new council house - and in relation to vicinity to London, they were closer. They had a downstairs WC as well as bathroom upstairs, their kitchen had three power points as well as an electric power point and gas was also laid on. Their lounge had an open fireplace plus a gas point. Their bedrooms were between 1 & 2 ft larger, with two power plugs, their loft was insulated - albeit 1" insulation. We had one additional power point in the kitchen, no downstairs WC, we had to pay extra for the gas to be laid on, and an extra amount for a gas point to the fireplace in the lounge. Additional power points were £10 each! We checked with friends in various parts of the country and this was the norm - private builders decided that they could not build to Parker Morris standards.

Here is a reference to Boris bringing back the Parker Morris standards http://www.bdonline.co.uk/is-boris-johnson-right-to-bring-back-parker-morris-standards?/3116894.article

ukcarper

Generali wrote: »

Interesting that Nationwide and also the local news regularly used to cover people living in damp ridden council flats if construction was so good.

I also wonder why you can't get a normal mortgage on so many ex-council flats. You couldn't even in the days when any bum on the streets could get a 125% mortgage.

As I said I have first hand experience with council accommodation in the 60s and 70s and the properties were fine. There were a few bad developments mainly flats but to say that most were bad because of them is not true.

Generali

ukcarper wrote: »

As I said I have first hand experience with council accommodation in the 60s and 70s and the properties were fine. There were a few bad developments mainly flats but to say that most were bad because of them is not true.

My uncle lived in a council house and it wad in a terrible state of disrepair until he bought it and fixed it.

It used to drive him mad. He was an incredibly competent carpenter but wasn't allowed to touch it.

ukcarper

Generali wrote: »

My uncle lived in a council house and it wad in a terrible state of disrepair until he bought it and fixed it.

It used to drive him mad. He was an incredibly competent carpenter but wasn't allowed to touch it.

My parents and grandparents lived in the same road half of which were council the other half private rental and owner occupier. My parents lived in a council property and in the time they were there it had a new bathroom and kitchen. My grandparents lived in a privately rented property and there was no improvements made and very little maintenance. My mother now lives in ex council now HA property and it is maintained to a good standard and in the last couple of new years has had a knew boiler and kitchen.

CLAPTON

thorsoak wrote: »

In 1963, when we were buying our first house, my OH's cousin was a building surveyor. We bought a new house, on a new estate from a reputable builder - which is still going strong today (not Wimpey or Bovis!) OH's cousin told us about Parker Morris standards, and when we asked the company we were told that for the money we were paying (£3,200) we could not expect more than one power plug per room, no central heating, no insulation - these were all extras. At the same time my sister and her partner got their new council house - and in relation to vicinity to London, they were closer. They had a downstairs WC as well as bathroom upstairs, their kitchen had three power points as well as an electric power point and gas was also laid on. Their lounge had an open fireplace plus a gas point. Their bedrooms were between 1 & 2 ft larger, with two power plugs, their loft was insulated - albeit 1" insulation. We had one additional power point in the kitchen, no downstairs WC, we had to pay extra for the gas to be laid on, and an extra amount for a gas point to the fireplace in the lounge. Additional power points were £10 each! We checked with friends in various parts of the country and this was the norm - private builders decided that they could not build to Parker Morris standards.

Here is a reference to Boris bringing back the Parker Morris standards http://www.bdonline.co.uk/is-boris-johnson-right-to-bring-back-parker-morris-standards?/3116894.article

so private builders sell small, medium and larger houses with different specification at different prices to suit the ability of people to pay.



today, given the shortage of housing in London and the SE, all things being equal, you would prefer fewer but larger properties to be built?