I've been dismissed for gross misconduct. i feel this is too strong. can anyone help

Takeaway_Addict

ableandy wrote: »

Rocksavage, if you wish PM me and I will advise privately with you.

For reference:

Allowing others to convert to ones own use company property.

They have a valid point but if you can identify someone else who has been allowed to do this then you may have a case.

Dishonesty and theft

You have not committed a theft (for those who think you have - look up the definition) - were you dishonest? Not from what you have said, dishonesty would require you to lie to them about the incident, from what you have said you owned up as soon as questioned and told them everything they needed to know. Do you fill in a log book at night of things that have happened - did you put this in the log book?

Deliberate and flagrant not following company policy - you will need them to provide a copy of the policy that you have breached. You should have been sent this as part of your disciplinary invite. Without this they are in breach of employment law.

Breakdown of trust - this is linked to all the above, difficult to prove either way but would not on its own be a Gross Misconduct.


Further - by denying you the opportunity to speak to other employees you may have been denied the right to be accompanied, this again would be a breach of Employment Law. Who are you allowed to be accompanied by?

Anyway, happy to help you put together an Appeal.

You have a point on the employee side of things, the OP should have been allowed someone.

Theft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider for these services

Providing the room without consent would come under this.

It comes down to whether the OP had consent to allow people to use the companies facilities FOC, if not then apart from procedural errors I can't see the employer doing to much wrong. Whether other people allow it is a flimsy argument as they might have had the authority to allow it.

And FWIW I do think its harsh on the company to dismiss someone who has worked there for 9 years on this case as it was purely with good intentions and it's well worth appealing. I just think technically the OP might be in trouble and if people like yourself Andy can help him then he needs to take as much help as possible.

OP as people have mentioned check your insurances for legal cover, definitely appeal and take as much help as possible and I wish you well and hope they lower the end decision to a final written warning.

ableandy

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

You have a point on the employee side of things, the OP should have been allowed someone.

Theft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider for these services

Providing the room without consent would come under this.

I recently had a decision overturned on this issue at an Employment Tribunal due to the fact that the individual dismissed had not actually committed a theft but had allowed a theft to happen which is a different offence. Also in this case the correct offence would be one of denial of service - i.e. that whilst the accommodation was being cleaned it was unavailable for others to use. The OP should have been billed for the cleaning costs (if he was responsible for the act committed).

It would be interesting to know what the guy who slept there was disciplined with.

Whatever our interpretations, at the end of the day the punishment does not seem to fit the crime.

Takeaway_Addict

ableandy wrote: »

I recently had a decision overturned on this issue at an Employment Tribunal due to the fact that the individual dismissed had not actually committed a theft but had allowed a theft to happen which is a different offence. Also in this case the correct offence would be one of denial of service - i.e. that whilst the accommodation was being cleaned it was unavailable for others to use. The OP should have been billed for the cleaning costs (if he was responsible for the act committed).

It would be interesting to know what the guy who slept there was disciplined with.

Whatever our interpretations, at the end of the day the punishment does not seem to fit the crime.

Out of interest, on the overturned decision was it accepted that it would still have been GM and any award reduced because of it?

hawk30

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

You have a point on the employee side of things, the OP should have been allowed someone.

Theft of services is the legal term for a crime which is committed when a person obtains valuable services — as opposed to goods — by deception, force, threat or other unlawful means, i.e., without lawfully compensating the provider for these services
(

Not in the UK it's not. This appears to be an American term.

ableandy

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Out of interest, on the overturned decision was it accepted that it would still have been GM and any award reduced because of it?

No the company decided to make a settlement so as to avoid an order to reinstate.

jackyann

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

You cannot say this with certainty, whilst they probably would have helped the OP could and IMO be in the same position they are now

Point taken, although I'd like to say that I was talking, as are many here, from personal experience, and expecting it to be taken as such.
I do think that ableandy's offer is kind, and I hope that OP gets this sorted.
I remain interested in the disciplinary action taken against the person OP sees as the offender.

LegalSec

The law in the UK appears to allow employers to fire anyone they want. I was recently arbitratary dismissed just for wearing jeans in the office and arguing with my boss – I know, hardly a crime! However, managers hate dealing with Employment Tribunals so start taking action quickly. Firstly your offence does not seem to be too bad so a reasonable employer should have given you a warning (twice) before dismissing you. You sound as though you have a good claim against your employers that could lead to reinstatement or compensation. Contact a no-win-no-fee claim handler on Monday!! Good luck.

Takeaway_Addict

LegalSec wrote: »

The law in the UK appears to allow employers to fire anyone they want. I was recently arbitratary dismissed just for wearing jeans in the office and arguing with my boss – I know, hardly a crime! However, managers hate dealing with Employment Tribunals so start taking action quickly. Firstly your offence does not seem to be too bad so a reasonable employer should have given you a warning (twice) before dismissing you. You sound as though you have a good claim against your employers that could lead to reinstatement or compensation. Contact a no-win-no-fee claim handler on Monday!! Good luck.

From your previous posts it was a lot more than what you say here, you had warnings, written warnings and were rude to a customer.

Also, any employer can fire any person at any time, the difference is whether there is protection against lawfulness or not, the OP is well over the 2 years so cannot be dismissed for no reason.

And an employer doesn't have to go through the stages disciplinary because it depends on the severity of the reason for a disciplinary meeting.

OP speak to Andy and make your decision from there.

keyser666

LegalSec wrote: »

The law in the UK appears to allow employers to fire anyone they want. I was recently arbitratary dismissed just for wearing jeans in the office and arguing with my boss – I know, hardly a crime! However, managers hate dealing with Employment Tribunals so start taking action quickly. Firstly your offence does not seem to be too bad so a reasonable employer should have given you a warning (twice) before dismissing you. You sound as though you have a good claim against your employers that could lead to reinstatement or compensation. Contact a no-win-no-fee claim handler on Monday!! Good luck.

You're getting boring now

rocksavage

Thankyou for all your help. It is much appreciated. I guess I can't actually say who gave authority. I commonly work nights 6pm _ 8am. Occassions where other staff have been allowed has often just been left on a note. (warden please note such and such is staying in such and such tonight).

I feel if this event is so extremem that having worked for 9 years with no disciplinary or warning, and can lead straight to immediate dismissal then it really needs to be in handbook infact have it's own section. I was totally shocked when I was told that more than just the one person had stayed.

I believe if he had actually gone back to the lodge and gone straight to sleep (which he told me he was doing, thus only using one set of bedding, this wouldn't have been a dismissal action) so I'm punished further for the fact that he made a mess and lied to me about his intentions. Had he said I want a party in a lodge I would have never allowed that in the slightest.

Regarding others disciplinary two people have been dismissed for gross misconduct. Basically all the points on mine. Slight changes being theirs is : converting to ones own use : mine is : allowing others to convert to ones own use :

I just can't believe there is no warning, to be honest even just a quiet word. Please be aware we don't allow staff to sy in lodges. Did you not see the email. No sorry. Ok I will get you a copy. Don't do it again. No of course I won't sorry.