Only freedom will do

edinburgher

AlexLK wrote: »

Personally, I don't buy the 'didn't learn how to cook' argument for continually eating junk, though as I'm sure a lot of us left for uni not really knowing how to cook and learnt along the way. I also don't understand why if you were living in poverty you wouldn't grow fresh vegetables in your garden, buy fruit as snacks rather, get friendly with a local gamekeeper than eat junk which has got to be more expensive in the long run? One lunch I make for my son to take to school is roasted veg cous cous which I imagine per helping is really cheap, probably less than £1? It has got to be cheaper (and healthier) than taking a packet of biscuits (probably more like £2) to school?

A few things to consider here Alex.

• Your 'going to uni' comment may as well say 'going to the moon' for some people. The barriers to entry may have been lowered, but they're still very real
• If you are living in poverty, there's a real chance that you live in a !!!!!! bedsit that has been subdivided to the extent that you barely have room for yourself (and your kids if you have any) to sleep. Chances are you won't have a garden
• Local gamekeeper? You may as well say 'local rockstar' :rotfl: Most people don't live in a rural setting Alex, I haven't met a gamekeeper in my life
• Couscous (white) isn't particularly nutritious, although it's better than a slice of pizza or some other snack. Also roasted vegetables? What if your power has been cut, or you can't afford to power a cooker? This is reality for a depressingly high number of people in the UK. When exploring donating some food to a food bank, I was surprised by the number of 'junk' items that they were looking for - until someone explained to me that a lot of people may not have cooking facilities beyond a kettle

elantan

I try and add things like dog and cat food into the food Bank trolley ... as I'm aware a lot of people will feed their pet before themselves, so if I can give a tin of pet food sanity products and toothbrush paste and shower gel, it may allow the person to concentrate on food ... sounds weird but it was something I noticed when I looked in the trolley in the supermarket

edinburgher

Haha - loving sanity products - our office could use a large delivery :rotfl:

elantan

Ha ha ha never noticed that ... my mobile phone strikes again

AlexLK

elantan wrote: »

I see you've assumed people have gardens and live in the country? For some they live in flats with no garden so can't grow food, we have a desperate shortage of allotments just now so not everyone can have a garden to grow food in, gamekeepers tend not to live in city centres, are these people expected to go around asking total strangers if they are gamekeepers and can they be friends ?

Yes i agree peoplet should learn to cook ... I merely wish it was that simple, some people can't afford electricity ... and that they had someone to teach them how to cook and how to budget, a lot of people can't budget...

As for the expensive habits including drug taking, I have yet to meet a 7 year old kid that says to me ... when I grow up I want to be a heroine addict ... or an alcoholic, I have yet to meet an adult that says oh today I fancy becoming an addict ...

It is a very deeply complex issue and I know there are situations where people don't help themselves I accept that, I accept there are also many people that abuse the kindness of others ...

Biscuits can be bought for 30p or less ... buying an apple can be more expensive and won't fill a child up as much ...

There are many working poor people in this country as well as many non working poor people in this country ... but I can assure you watching a young 20 something person dying before your eyes for the reasons of poverty is painful ... it hurts ... then taking a family full of hope for that young person up to a specialist area and noticing that they are suffering themselves can tear a person apart

Yes, to be fair I hadn't considered city-dwellers.

I was not saying I thought children aspired to be addicts, merely that was my (sometimes wrong) impression of the cause of poverty in the UK.

I really cannot understand how anyone (even if they are not working) can not afford electricity.

At no point have I said I have no empathy. I work / volunteer in a school where a lot of the children's parents don't have a lot of money. In the time I've been there I've been the one to buy GCSE revision books (and other supplies for music lessons) after being told their parents could not afford to buy them. I had initially presumed their parents reckless but over time have learned that to not always be the case.

chickadee wrote: »

Interesting discussion on your diary today Ed.

Alex, whilst that may be how it is done in rural Derbyshire, people living in poverty in inner cities don't have the luxury of a garden to grow things in, no gardens in terraced houses or high rise flats. The thoughts of the local gamekeeper made me laugh! I agree that the 'never learned to cook' thing can sound like an excuse but if your parents never cooked, it just isn't something that is even on your horizon. Did you ever see that terribly sad Jamie Oliver series where he was showing families how to cook the most basic of meals? One child, about two or three years old, couldn't recognise a carrot or a potato, but she knew just from the packaging what the meals in takeaway containers were. Some people are starting from a very low baseline.

When I was young, we lived in a terraced house and were lucky to have a garden. One year my Dad thought he would grow some vegetables and he wanted to grow things that we couldn't already buy cheaply like carrots and onions. He carefully prepared the ground, digging, weeding and spreading what seemed like a ton of manure. Then he carefully tipped his seeds of choice into his hand, just as a gust of wind came and blew these dust-like seeds everywhere. He had chosen to grow celeriac, which looks like an ugly turnip but tastes of celery, very exotic! He was distraught. Not as distraught as my poor mum, when all of the seeds had grown into very healthy celeriac plants and she had to try to think of what else she could make with the damn things. We had celeriac soup, celeriac mash, boiled celeriac, celeriac hidden in stews, etc. etc. I'll never eat the stuff again!

We also had a friendly neighbour who worked at an abbatoir and he would bring us very cheap meat. We were well-fed.

Oh, and I whilst it is cheap enough, roasted vegetable cous cous probably isn't on the radar of poverty-stricken families. And a packet of biscuits is more like 35p than £2.

I very rarely watch TV, so I didn't see the programme. However, it sounds almost unbelievable. I just cannot see how families can afford take away but not to cook their own meals or comprehend never seeing anyone cook. It just seems beyond all belief to me.

Not meaning to be rude but why would you only plant one type of vegetable?

Not sure where the 35p biscuits are coming from, either?

edinburgher wrote: »

A few things to consider here Alex.

• Your 'going to uni' comment may as well say 'going to the moon' for some people. The barriers to entry may have been lowered, but they're still very real
• If you are living in poverty, there's a real chance that you live in a !!!!!! bedsit that has been subdivided to the extent that you barely have room for yourself (and your kids if you have any) to sleep. Chances are you won't have a garden
• Local gamekeeper? You may as well say 'local rockstar' :rotfl: Most people don't live in a rural setting Alex, I haven't met a gamekeeper in my life
• Couscous (white) isn't particularly nutritious, although it's better than a slice of pizza or some other snack. Also roasted vegetables? What if your power has been cut, or you can't afford to power a cooker? This is reality for a depressingly high number of people in the UK. When exploring donating some food to a food bank, I was surprised by the number of 'junk' items that they were looking for - until someone explained to me that a lot of people may not have cooking facilities beyond a kettle

It's easy to replace going to uni with getting your first house - they aren't all living with parents else I presume they'd have access to cooking facilities.

Would a family with children really be living in bedsit accommodation? I presumed if in need, the local authority found families suitable housing?

I will concede re. the gamekeeper. I can only go by my own experiences and offer solutions that I would potentially utilise if I were in the position.

I just cannot understand how people don't have access to anything other than a kettle even in the most basic of accommodation, to be honest. I know a lot on here seem to think I'm "out of touch" but I just cannot see how such accommodation works for people and why anyone would choose to stay there?

edinburgher

elantan wrote: »

Is it very finely ground ? I was reading espresso is finely ground like a Turkish coffee ... almost powder like ?

Ps good price, sounds like it will be tasty

Missed this one. Yes, espresso is very finely ground, although I always order the beans and then grind at home as they'll stay fresher for longer.

AlexLK wrote: »

I really cannot understand how anyone (even if they are not working) can not afford electricity.

At no point have I said I have no empathy.

I just cannot see how families can afford take away but not to cook their own meals or comprehend never seeing anyone cook. It just seems beyond all belief to me.

Would a family with children really be living in bedsit accommodation? I presumed if in need, the local authority found families suitable housing?

I just cannot understand how people don't have access to anything other than a kettle even in the most basic of accommodation, to be honest. I know a lot on here seem to think I'm "out of touch" but I just cannot see how such accommodation works for people and why anyone would choose to stay there?

Sorry Alex, quotes playing silly beggars, so I've had to just chop down one big quote.

• A life on benefits isn't a good life for most people. People do have to make choices such as 'heat or eat'? You might struggle to believe/comprehend it, but it is happening out there
• Nobody has accused you of not having empathy, I think the worst accusation that anyone could level at you from this discussion would be that you're a little uninformed about people on very low incomes
• I spent a lot of time in some pretty grotty parts of the South of Glasgow, where poorer white families, people with substance abuse issues and a recent wave of immigrants seemed to congregate (I was just looking for a cheap flat!) It was perfectly possible to pick up a huge takeaway for very little money (I recall a 12" pizza, onion rings, 2 bags of chips and a large bottle of fizzy drink that would have fed a family of 4 at a pinch costing less than £6). Yes, the ingredients for something healthy (say pasta with vegetables and a little cheese) might have been available for £3, but the takeaway route features no need to be able to cook, no need for a hob or pots/knives and no gas/electricity bill to pay (and no dishes to wash)!
• Families with children probably shouldn't be in this sort of accommodation, but it happens. A colleague (who will remain nameless for obvious reasons) was left by a partner who never paid the mortgage, created £££££ of debt and then disappeared, leaving them with 2 young children. They weren't offered a home, more somewhere to sleep
• Local authority budgets are stretched for a variety of reasons. Plenty of people live in inappropriate accommodation that doesn't work for them because they simply have no options. This flat doesn't work for you sir? That's tough, take it or become 'voluntarily homeless'. You are a bit out of touch, just be grateful that poverty seems a bit unreal to you!

elantan

Alex people don't choose to be there, people don't choose to not be able to afford to feed their family ... these things are what happens to some people for a variety of reasons ...


Oh and Ed .. what grinder do you use ? Mine isn't coping with a fine ground and I do need to purchase a new one

LadyGnome

Alex in London I know of families of 4 in a one bed flat who aren't considered overcrowded because the parents can sleep in the sitting room and children can share.

To give you a practical example of how quickly things can go wrong if the system messes up. Our tenants needed to move onto Housing Benefit due to illness meaning the husband couldn't work - fine by us because the house isn't mortgaged but most BTL mortgages won't allow tenants on benefits. The council took about 8 months to process the Housing Benefit claim during which time the tenants were supposed to be paying us the full rent despite reduced earnings. Unsurprisingly they fell into arrears that were high enough for us to seek s8 possession if we wanted. We let them stay despite the arrears but I know they were scrimping hard to pay us something. It is easy to see how people could get into a position where they are choosing between food or rent when the councils are so slow. Eventually they received a large back payment of HB and have paid off the arrears but another landlord might have just evicted them for non-payment of rent. If you are evicted for non-payment of rent you are deemed to be intentionally homeless and the council doesn't have a duty to rehouse.

edinburgher

El, link below, seems good to me (but nothing to compare it to bar my Hario hand grinder one, which was a !!!!!! to use):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002OHDBQC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

misscousinitt

A friend of mine who is on benefits (single man) is really struggling to make ends meet. Lives in a 2 bed flat (so gets clobbered by bedroom tax) and really does have to make the decision at certain stages between benefit payments whether to heat or eat. But sometimes it can be poor quality of cookers etc... in rented accommodation that can add to an already dire situation. My friend has been without an oven/grill and most of his cooking rings for some time now - his landlord is not forthcoming with repairs!

Fortunately, he can cook - so does manage to make some nutritious meals out of very little (using one/two rings) - but still has to rely on food parcels from the food bank from time to time.

He has continually applied for jobs with no success - he wants to work, but he is now becoming increasingly marginalised by his situation. (out of work for 6 years now).

Its a complex issue all round - not made any easier by people not knowing how to cook!

I hope and pray that something can be done to do something about this problem - it's heart breaking.

Enough said I think...on to lighter topics.

MCI