working hours

halia

I started a new p/t job 3 weeks ago, seems interesting, colleagues okay, office good etc.

But this week I've been feeling a bit

I work 14 hrs and I'm only on about £15k pro rata. I normally work thursday and friday, my job is to do with supervising/recruiting/training/supporting volunteers.

Now due to the weather I rang round all vols at the end of last week to tell them event smight be cancelled and in an emergancy (ie not sure if the thing they were going to was on or unable to get there themsleves) they could ring my mobile.

On sunday I had a 30 minute phone call, monday I spoke to 3 people including the admin at my office who rang twice.
Tuesday I spoke to 1 person and admin at office
Wednesday admin rang twice, once at 8am!?! and once at 5.16pm which I didn't answer because I was doing DS tea. At 10.45pm?!?!? last night one of the other staff members who has been suppoused to be doing my induction rang me up - not with anything urgent just to 'chat' for half an hour! :mad:

I just feel like this is taking the micky a bit, its suppoused to be a 9-5 job and I dont know of any other job where I'd be expected to take calls outside office hours like this on my days off.

They are also sending me on training - they pay for hotel/train etc but its 12pm train on day 1, 7pm -9pm evening discussion, then 8.30am-4.30pm training day 2, 5.30pm train, arrive home 9pm. But I am still expected to go into the office on a third day?

I dont' want to rock the boat this early but I took this job because i only wanted p/t work right now. I'm already having to pay out for extra childcare for the training next week as it isn't my usual day at the office.

PS, I'm actually at home today as have a streaming cold, (aftermath of getting soaked in the awful weather) my line manager was very curt on the phone earlier. I left a message for admin (no-one in) at 8.15am, but had to get to GP and get DS to nursery. She rang at 9.30am and asked why i hadn't let anyone know - then said "oh X has just played the answerphone message now"

I gues my question is;
how do I let them know that I have other commitments and so my 14 hrs is the time I work for them - not extra's
how flexible should I offer to be regarding hours, I can work on tuesdays 'instead' occasionally and I dont' mind checking emails/txt messages once a day if it is URGENT.
Is this job going to end up being more hassle than its worth? I actually took a job on a lower salary than my last post because I knew I had too many other things going on (2 yr old with special needs) to be able to work the hours my last job required.

Jarvisma

I wouldn't give up just because of a few teething problems at the start. If you are otherwise enjoying the job, stick with it (but obviuosly if you don't it's a good reason to go!)

Unfortunately you've learned the first lesson of why you should never give out your personal mobile number at work - you will get calls outside of work that's a fact! I would say on that point you can't really put all the blame on them. You gave them your number and said to call, unfortunately unless you said "only call between the hours of x and x" then they will go ahead and call if they are working as to them that's 'worktime'.

If you've only been there 3 weeks and you want to stay, try not to sound too much like you're making demands. On the other hand, if you can take or leave the job, you can be firmer about what you're not willing to put up with.

My advice - either change your personal no and keep that one for business (cost to you), ask for a work mobile if it's a big enough company and you can justify it (cost to them) or simply, don't answer it outside of work to unknown or known work numbers. Or be tough enough to say "sorry I'm actually out of the office at the moment, could you call back Mon morning"

As for the training, surely this is only a one off or short term thing so if possible could you not just bear with it for now as long as you know once the training is over you will be back to your basic hours.

If it's a more regular thing there's nothing wrong with having a little word with your boss and explaining that seeing as you worked x hours extra today would you mind if I left x hours early tomorrow so that you don't have to pay increased childcare costs

halia

It was a work mobile - I answered it because each time I assumed it was urgent! ie that a meeting I had to go to was cancelled or the office was flooded again.

Still a bit :mad: that anyone would think it was okay to ring someone up at 10.45pm unless it was urgent.

patricia1066

Sorry to hear that the job is proving tricky. I am sure someone with employment expertise will be along soon.

Just a thought - is it a small organisation without personnel manager? I noticed that the person who was supposed to induct you had a "chat" on the phone in your own time.

Have you seen your contract of employment? Does it state the days you are required to work or is it a flexible, open-ended one?

You need to have a formal induction, given your experiences so far, but getting one when it may be no one's "job" may be the issue. Perhaps everyone in the organisation extends themselves in the way that is unacceptable to you in your circumstances. You offered to be available to volunteers on one occasion in an emergency - you can clarify the conditions under which you would offer to do this again, if at all.

At induction you can look at the terms and conditions of employment, including any working hours out of the contractual hours. You can also provide the details of your caring responsibilities that affect your life, such as caring for your 2yo daughter, and you can be specific about the ways that this will restrict what you can do.

If you dont want to be specific, just make sure they know the ages of your children so they understand the additional costs of providing childcare on any day that is not agreed in the contract. Its reasonable to ask for this to be refunded as they may be asking you to work outside your agreed working days.

I hope that your initial views about the organisation will prove reliable and that you can come to an agreement about how you can be effective in your work without having unpaid "on duty at home" hours.

If they ask you to spend additional hours training or being available on certain evenings for phone calls, then you need to either get paid for the time, or perhaps get acknowledgement that the hours they are asking for are in fact not 14 hrs per week, but whatever, and that this may infringe on the minimum pay which is £5.35 per hour at the moment.

Good luck with it, you are worrying that the job may not be suitable for you but now that you have a clear idea of how you can be effective in the job, and if you get a sympathetic approach to you by the organisation, you together can sort it out.

celtic_curl

Hi Halia

As your job is supporting volunteers I'm assuming you are working for a charity - is this correct? How big an organisation is it?

Whatever the size, you are entitled to stick to your contract of employment so it is important that you check what it says. I used to work for a charity and was very flexible as it suited me to work that way but I don't have the responsibilities you have and it is perfectly reasonable for you to speak to your manager outlining your concerns and request you reach an amicable agreement that suits you and them. I doesn't have to be seen as rocking the boat - how you approach it will set the tone, but if despite this your employer continues to behave this way you do have the right to 'put your foot down'. I suggest you emphasise your caring responsibilities (this will help cover you if things escalate).

If a colleague rings you outside of working hours, and you feel you want to answer the phone, start by asking if its urgent and if not explain you are busy and will contact them when you're 'at work'. It might be an idea to send an all staff (or relevant staff) email and advise them of your normal working hours and ask that they only contact you outside of those times if it's an emergency - you can word it in such a way that makes you sound flexible and helpful e.g. Although I only work Thursdays and Fridays if you need to speak to me urgently outside of these times please feel free to try my mobile. However, please be aware that I may not always be available but if you leave a message advising of the issue and indicating it's urgent I will try to get back to you asap. You could also record a similar message on the mobile and not answer it when it rings out of hours and just check the messages afterwards.

As for the training - it is reasonable to expect your employer to reimburse any additional costs you experience when they ask you to work outside normal working hours e.g. child care, car parking etc. You should also not be expected to work extra days without additional payment although you should check your personnel handbook to see if they have any specific policies. e.g. my employer does not count time spent travelling to training as work time but equally counts a short course eg 10-3 as a full days work so sometimes you win sometimes you lose. However long distance travel and overnights should be handled differently and I suggest you agree to work the morning you are due to travel, then you will in my opinion have done 2 days work.

It is important you iron out these problems at an early stage. Not least because it is clearly stressing you and your life sounds stressful enough! Whilst it is quite common for people who work in the voluntary sector to be flexible there are employers who take advantage of their staffs commitment and it is important that they are not allowed to guilt you into doing more than you are contracted to unless you choose to. I would not offer to check emails/ texts on a daily basis as you may find this doesn't always suit you and you could find yourself being 'put upon'. Simply offer the phonein an emergency option and leave it at that.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

halia

thanks for input all, I worded an email saying 'my normal hours are thursday and friday, out of these hours you can leave a message for me on my mobile or email and I will get back to you asap. For urgent matters please ring the office on....... and they will get in touch with me. (that way they can filter the calls to an extent).

I'm not going to answer the phone if it rings when I am at home - straight to answerphone and then I will ring back if needed.

I need to check out the travel thing, I will spend 8 hrs travelling in total but if they dont' count that as work time then I'm taking a good book onto the train and ignoring my mobile! (happy to take work moby and laptop with me and work on the train but only if they will count it)

It is a charity and talking to my lien manager at one point they said "I dont; think I expect everyone to give the same commitment I do, I just think if you work for us it is the most important thing you can do" Hmmm, I think there is a bit of a culture of expecting people to do more than their hours etc because its a charity. I'll just have to be very clear about my boundries, I do support what they do - hey I've taken a pay cut! but I also have other things in my life.

(one of my colleagues works for them f/t, volunteers for them p/t, and makes stuff to sell for them in her spare time!)

Savvy_Sue

I'm not sure I'd even have the mobile switched on unless I was expecting a call! For example, last weekend if there were doubts over whether events would go ahead, then it was reasonable for volunteers to be able to contact someone. But not on a regular basis, surely?

Plus, if you are doing hours outside your contracted 14, then it's not unreasonable to ask what their plans are for compensating you for these: either overtime or Time Off In Lieu.

I work for a charity too, but they do not take us for granted. One of my colleagues said the other day that she was now leaving her work mobile at work, rather than taking it home each day, to avoid the temptation to check her messages in the evening. And in general that's a sensible thing to do, after all if she goes sick it is better for her phone to be with us rather than with her!