has anyone a "7 a day" meal plan please?

lostinrates

gayleygoo wrote: »

I try to always squeeze in at least 3 portions of veg into a dinner. Sometimes it's more or less, and I count onion and garlic as one and they end up in nearly every meal! Lunch often has at least 2-3 veg since it is usually salad, veg soup or veg and tomato pasta. My kids don't eat many veg at all so I let them eat as much fruit as I can get into them.

Remember that many herbs and spices are beneficial too, with vitamins and trace minerals. Some would consider a serving of those (normally around 5g, rather than 80g!) to be a "portion" of your veg for the day. I'm not sure how cooking affects those nutrients though.

Re herbs, depending on the herbs some fresh green herbs make fantastic punchy flavoursome additions to salads or things like couscous. A big bunch of flat leaf parsley for example, makes a great salad green. So some herbs work well in much larger than 5g portions.

LameWolf

peachyprice wrote: »

Do people really eat all that food every day?

That was my thought. I struggle to manage 5 a day, despite being vegetarian, simply because if I ate that, I wouldn't eat anything from any of the other food groups at all.

Typical day's food for me is:

07:00 Half a wine glass of grapefruit juice, a couple of dessertspoons of live yogurt with a small handful of bran flakes added.

12:00: One slice HM wholemeal bread, with a thin layer of cheese and enough cucumber to cover the top of it; one banana.

19:00: One portion "main course" - tonight's is HM cheese, Qu0rn, tomato and onion quiche - a portion is a quarter of an 8" pie plate.

20:00 Dessert - for instance, small (one eighth of an 8" pie plate) portion of HM fruit crumble.

I can't eat dessert straight after main course, hence listing it at a later time.

I might manage half a dozen grapes later in the evening - sometimes.

That's it!:eek:

lostinrates

LameWolf wrote: »

That was my thought. I struggle to manage 5 a day, despite being vegetarian, simply because if I ate that, I wouldn't eat anything from any of the other food groups at all.

Typical day's food for me is:

07:00 Half a wine glass of grapefruit juice, a couple of dessertspoons of live yogurt with a small handful of bran flakes added.

12:00: One slice HM wholemeal bread, with a thin layer of cheese and enough cucumber to cover the top of it; one banana.

19:00: One portion "main course" - tonight's is HM cheese, Qu0rn, tomato and onion quiche - a portion is a quarter of an 8" pie plate.

20:00 Dessert - for instance, small (one eighth of an 8" pie plate) portion of HM fruit crumble.

I can't eat dessert straight after main course, hence listing it at a later time.

I might manage half a dozen grapes later in the evening - sometimes.

That's it!:eek:

Depends totally on the person and lifestyle though, doesn't it?

We know that most modern lifestyles are less physically active and so have lower calorific requirement, That's not necessarily a good thing for nutrient intake nor for health, as many keep eating as if they were as active as previous generations.....or more so.

Others on the other hand are tremendously physical, active people, spend hours in physical labour or active pursuit.

Add to that individual differences,....some people eat that much and more, ( like my husband can several days a week) and others eat a fraction of it ( like me:(). Eating less is not necessarily the healthier option because its often the last resort of those of us who cannot do more, and I have to supplement my diet significantly under medical supervision. I'd much rather be more physically active with the benefits that has and eat more were it an option, its also more fun!:D

nickyhutch

peachyprice wrote: »

Do people really eat all that food every day?

I was just wondering how people manage on just that

newthrift

I think they are being a bit over ambitious recommmending 7 every single day. As long as you have a healthy and varied diet and eat everything in moderation I don't think you can go far wrong.
Both me and my OH vary day to day the amounts we have as it will depend on whats for tea not just what we had in the day.
As a general I have - 2 x satsumas, 1 x banana and/or apple, little pack of raisins then we will have 4 veg with tea. The satsuams count as 1, so I guess I do have 7 without realising but not every single day.
My OH will have 1 x glass orange juice, 1 x banana and 4 veg with tea so 6 but again not every single day.

patchwork_cat

jack_pott wrote: »

That's still an extra 1100 kcal a day, or 8 stone weight gain in a year.

Where on earth are you getting your calories figures from? Yes as far as I can see nuts do not count towards your 5/7 a day, but to get 1100 calories from at most 80g of nuts and 30g of dried fruit!

patchwork_cat

Lizling wrote: »

In your own quote, it says they've tried to adjust for social class. In this context, that will mean the standard socio-economic grading from A-E, which is pretty much affluence, although I agree it's not perfect. They will have used a statistical methodology along the lines of stratification to see what the difference is between people with the same characteristics in all ways except fruit and vegetable intake. The techniques aren't perfect though, and rely on probabilities, hence the 'may influence the association' bit. Also, different characteristics aren't always independent and you can't control for every difference that makes up a human being.

Confounders are things they haven't adjusted for. It's always possible they missed an important one, but this is basically standard derrière-covering

From the article you linked to:

The researchers adjusted their analysis for the following confounders:
age
sex
smoking status
social class
education
body mass index (BMI)
level of physical activity
alcohol consumption

I explain the increase in deaths for tinned/frozen fruit as tinned fruit in syrup being bad for you and possibly indicative of a poor diet in other respects. It's a shame tinned and frozen were lumped together in the data.

A study that askes people what fruit and vegetables they ate on ONE day and then extrapolates to all cause mortality is IMO very flawed! Not all tinned fruit is in syrup, we always buy in juice, but to have statistics saying it INCREASES risk of death by 17%, is frankly flawed. You say that it is indicative of possibly poor diet, well then they haven't factor other foods in, have they.


Quote from the report author re the 17% increase - “The negative health impacts of the sugar may well outweigh any benefits. Another possibility is that there are confounding factors that we could not control for, such as poor access to fresh groceries among people who have pre-existing health conditions, hectic lifestyles or who live in deprived areas

Therefore admitting that they have a number of pertinent issues not accounted for. They have obviously not adjusted sufficiently for socio economic status.



If a study determines that you have a 17% increase risk of death from eating tinned/ frozen fruit it is a flawed study.


Reports like this can score an own goal as only 1 in 5 manages to eat 5 a day( which we know is an arbitrary figure) and it dilutes the 5 a day message as dissenters will say 'see they can't make their minds up my Grandma never touched an apple and lived to be 85'. It will cause anxiety for others who have been trying to eat the 5 a day.

Auntie_Sceb

I think it's funny. Of course it's been known for a long time that eating a more varied diet of fruit and veg is good for you. % a day is recommended minimum.

But.... people measure their portions very differently. People who currently think they are having 5 portions aren't! You can only count fruit for 2 portions. Pulses for 1. Just because you have had 3 types of vegetables does not mean you have had 3 portions though it is good to have the variety.

So for the most part the only way to increase your portions is by eating vegetables as snacks otherwise you are increasing the amount you are eating not just your vegetable intake including other stuff not so good for you at the same time. I've just made some nice carrot and raisin cakes. 1 1/2 contain 1 adult fruit and veg portion but they also contain sugar and fat so high calorie. However if you are exchanging this for chocolate, crisps or cake without fruit/veg it's good but otherwise the benefits are questionable (though tasty). I think the message should be simple the more vegetables (?fruit) you can add to your diet the better.

I'm already vegetarian so if I add more veg to a pasta sauce for example I increase the variety of veg and make it go further but I won't be able to increase the portion of veg in it.

If I add carrot to mash potato (potatoes not 1 of 5 a day) I will may be get 1/2 a portion. If I did pure parsnip and carrot as mash I could count it as 1 of 5 a day (if 80g)

There is another thread discussing this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4936479

This is the study the papers are referring to:

http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/20...13-203500.full

and two resources explaining portion size:

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Whatcounts.aspx

http://nhsforthvalley.com/health-ser...ion-resources/

lostinrates

Auntie_Sceb wrote: »

I think it's funny. Of course it's been known for a long time that eating a more varied diet of fruit and veg is good for you. % a day is recommended minimum.

But.... people measure their portions very differently. People who currently think they are having 5 portions aren't! You can only count fruit for 2 portions. Pulses for 1. Just because you have had 3 types of vegetables does not mean you have had 3 portions though it is good to have the variety.

So for the most part the only way to increase your portions is by eating vegetables as snacks otherwise you are increasing the amount you are eating not just your vegetable intake including other stuff not so good for you at the same time. I've just made some nice carrot and raisin cakes. 1 1/2 contain 1 adult fruit and veg portion but they also contain sugar and fat so high calorie. However if you are exchanging this for chocolate, crisps or cake without fruit/veg it's good but otherwise the benefits are questionable (though tasty). I think the message should be simple the more vegetables (?fruit) you can add to your diet the better.

I'm already vegetarian so if I add more veg to a pasta sauce for example I increase the variety of veg and make it go further but I won't be able to increase the portion of veg in it.

If I add carrot to mash potato (potatoes not 1 of 5 a day) I will may be get 1/2 a portion. If I did pure parsnip and carrot as mash I could count it as 1 of 5 a day (if 80g)

There is another thread discussing this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4936479

This is the study the papers are referring to:

http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/20...13-203500.full

and two resources explaining portion size:

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Whatcounts.aspx

http://nhsforthvalley.com/health-ser...ion-resources/

I dispute the only way is to eat snacks.

In fact, the dentists on Mse often raise the point the number of times a day people eat nowadays and fruit juice drinks and other drinks between has increased dental problems. So....that can be problematic too.



It might be the best way for many to eat small meals, its what we are often told to do.

We, as a family, tend to have longer, slower meals when we can, so a two or three course supper at weekends and when DH is home a two course meal through the week...followed by cheese and fruit maybe.

Larger meals do not suit every one, I agree, but it is an alternative to snacking for intake.

There is also the fact that some things can be eaten less of to boost veg intake. E.g, when you look at many plates of food the vegetables are a far smaller portion than the protein or carbs. I think many ( including me fwiw) fail at this sometimes!


An interesting set of figures to look at would be how the intake around the veg was achieved in the examined diets.

E.g. Today my 'number' will be variety 5 ( I might squeeze six in) but portion under that....but only other intake ( other than water) will have be a small steak. I'll weigh it for record.

Auntie_Sceb

lostinrates - that is why I said veg snacks not fruit. I think I rarely hit 5 portions a day though I try to eat a varied diet I would find it hard to eat more. But looking at other people's 'portions' I would probably score 7. For example a bowl of salad is 1 portion not several.

Well when you read the study participants self reported and then the portions were calculated from their self reports. So this is quite a major flaw in the study.

The researchers say themselves "The main limitation is that measurement of fruit and vegetable intake occurred at only one point in time and relies on self-report. There may be social desirability bias and random error (forgetting) in the recall of fruit and vegetable consumption." (Oyebode, Gordon-Dseagu, Walker and Mindell 2014)

Another interesting observation was that those eating more fruit and vegetables were generally healthier anyway:

"Those who consumed more fruit and vegetables were generally older, less likely to smoke and more likely to be women, in a non-manual household, with degree level education. The proportion of study participants who were vigorously active in the last 4 weeks increased as more portions of fruit and vegetables were consumed."
(Oyebode et al 2014)

They did consider where people were getting their intake from to a point finding those eating tinned and frozen fruit were at higher risk of death than others though the study does not conclude why this is and considers other factors may be to blame.