What if I put a bet on a horse race and the bookmaker then runs out in front of the horse and stops it from winning.
He has therefore affected my chances of being on a winning horse and pocketed the money in the process???
Not a good analogy as you have got exactly what you bought.
Perhaps a better analogy is that you put the bet on Wednesday and it rained on Friday and the ground was heavy on Saturday which no longer suited the horse you bet one.
I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
Whilst I am pleased for everyone to have their own views I need to clear up several inaccuracies about our knowledge of how mortgages work and add a bit more background information.
I trade interest rates for a living, son, you are living a fantasy life if you thiink that you can "clear up" the market for me that I've lived for twelve hours a day for several decades.
I trade interest rates for a living, son, you are living a fantasy life if you thiink that you can "clear up" the market for me that I've lived for twelve hours a day for several decades.
Well yes, but to repeat your own comment fromm previously, that says more about you tan it does about me.
If you want a more detailed explanation as to why your complaint is misguided, from the point of view of someone paid to trade interest rates professionally, then you could always ask for it, but as what you seem to actually want is to act in a patronising fashion towards anyone who tries to help you out, I'll not expect a response in that direction.
Your complaint demonstrates a real ignorance of interest rates, mortgages, and financial markets, and has a real seam of conspiracy theory running through it.
Not a good analogy as you have got exactly what you bought.
Perhaps a better analogy is that you put the bet on Wednesday and it rained on Friday and the ground was heavy on Saturday which no longer suited the horse you bet one.
Precisely. Plus, of course, he'd need to assume that the bookmaker knew that the rain was coming, but offered "teaser" odds on a horse that he knew would suffer in the wet.
Since accusing me of patronising drivel and suggesting that I comment or shut up. You have made 7 responses to other posters without even acknowledging mine.
I am happy to debate with anyone. Totally respect their views if we disagree. Also admit my own mistakes. So I refer you back to my original comment also something you said in response to another poster.
That isn't relevant for me.
You are just another person that I commonly have dealt with in many years of working within finance. That acts like a kid in the playground. Full of bravo but can't behave like an adult when they hear something they don't want to hear. Attempts to muddy the waters with unrelated issues.
My original post was spot on. I was wasting my time. I suggest you read and learn as that's what's great about this forum.
Don't bother telling me to shut up again. As this is my last contribution to the thread.
It's not whether you're right or wrong that's important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong." — George Soros
Me neither. Which is why I would be selling the signatures rather than keeping them!
Ill give you an analogy:-
What if I put a bet on a horse race and the bookmaker then runs out in front of the horse and stops it from winning.
He has therefore affected my chances of being on a winning horse and pocketed the money in the process???
I'm afraid this is round the wrong way again.
I would claim that going for a variable rate (or even a short(er) term fix) is more like gambling. When you place a bet the future outcome is unknown. With a fixed rate (especially one that lasts the duration of the whole mortgage term) there is no unknown.
So your horse race analogy would be like going for a variable rate mortgage (or a shorter term fix) then the bank doing naughty things and pushing rates up.
What happened is more like this...
You consider putting a bet on horse A. [Variable rate or shorter term fix mortgage.]
The odds [interest rates] aren't favourable so you decide not to. [Long term fixed rate mortgage.]
The bookmaker [bank] runs in front of horse B [lends irresponsibly and manipulates rates] and horse A wins [it turns out a variable rate would have been cheaper in the end].
But you didn't bet [you went for a long term fixed rate mortgage] so the outcome of the race [which mortgage would have been better in hindsight] is irrelevant to you.
You'd be kicking yourself for not betting on horse A [for not getting a variable rate deal] but the fact that horse A won [interest rates came down] and the reason that that happened don't affect your outcome.
Again, all you've lost by the bookmaker's naughty actions is the smug feeling that you would have got had horse B romped home to victory.
Since accusing me of patronising drivel and suggesting that I comment or shut up. You have made 7 responses to other posters without even acknowledging mine.
I am happy to debate with anyone. Totally respect their views if we disagree. Also admit my own mistakes. So I refer you back to my original comment also something you said in response to another poster.
You are just another person that I commonly have dealt with in many years of working within finance. That acts like a kid in the playground. Full of bravo but can't behave like an adult when they hear something they don't want to hear. Attempts to muddy the waters with unrelated issues.
My original post was spot on. I was wasting my time. I suggest you read and learn as that's what's great about this forum.
Don't bother telling me to shut up again. As this is my last contribution to the thread.
Unless I've missed something over the past four, admittedly very interesting, pages - if you weren't advised on the product, where exactly do you think your complaint should be upheld?
That's like buying a Ford Ka and taking it back 5 years later and claiming it wasn't fit for purpose because you started a family three years after buying it...?
I am a mortgage adviser.
You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
Replies
Not a good analogy as you have got exactly what you bought.
Perhaps a better analogy is that you put the bet on Wednesday and it rained on Friday and the ground was heavy on Saturday which no longer suited the horse you bet one.
I trade interest rates for a living, son, you are living a fantasy life if you thiink that you can "clear up" the market for me that I've lived for twelve hours a day for several decades.
Totally lost me dad
Well yes, but to repeat your own comment fromm previously, that says more about you tan it does about me.
If you want a more detailed explanation as to why your complaint is misguided, from the point of view of someone paid to trade interest rates professionally, then you could always ask for it, but as what you seem to actually want is to act in a patronising fashion towards anyone who tries to help you out, I'll not expect a response in that direction.
Your complaint demonstrates a real ignorance of interest rates, mortgages, and financial markets, and has a real seam of conspiracy theory running through it.
Whatever is said by others the OP ignores or disparages, could OP be a troll?
Precisely. Plus, of course, he'd need to assume that the bookmaker knew that the rain was coming, but offered "teaser" odds on a horse that he knew would suffer in the wet.
I am happy to debate with anyone. Totally respect their views if we disagree. Also admit my own mistakes. So I refer you back to my original comment also something you said in response to another poster.
You are just another person that I commonly have dealt with in many years of working within finance. That acts like a kid in the playground. Full of bravo but can't behave like an adult when they hear something they don't want to hear. Attempts to muddy the waters with unrelated issues.
My original post was spot on. I was wasting my time. I suggest you read and learn as that's what's great about this forum.
Don't bother telling me to shut up again. As this is my last contribution to the thread.
I'm afraid this is round the wrong way again.
I would claim that going for a variable rate (or even a short(er) term fix) is more like gambling. When you place a bet the future outcome is unknown. With a fixed rate (especially one that lasts the duration of the whole mortgage term) there is no unknown.
So your horse race analogy would be like going for a variable rate mortgage (or a shorter term fix) then the bank doing naughty things and pushing rates up.
What happened is more like this...
You consider putting a bet on horse A. [Variable rate or shorter term fix mortgage.]
The odds [interest rates] aren't favourable so you decide not to. [Long term fixed rate mortgage.]
The bookmaker [bank] runs in front of horse B [lends irresponsibly and manipulates rates] and horse A wins [it turns out a variable rate would have been cheaper in the end].
But you didn't bet [you went for a long term fixed rate mortgage] so the outcome of the race [which mortgage would have been better in hindsight] is irrelevant to you.
You'd be kicking yourself for not betting on horse A [for not getting a variable rate deal] but the fact that horse A won [interest rates came down] and the reason that that happened don't affect your outcome.
Again, all you've lost by the bookmaker's naughty actions is the smug feeling that you would have got had horse B romped home to victory.
please dont go
That's like buying a Ford Ka and taking it back 5 years later and claiming it wasn't fit for purpose because you started a family three years after buying it...?