How can I get into IT without qualification:(

Bobster64

tomterm8 wrote: »

No one knows what the future holds, Amazin.

With a degree, and if you want a job like that, your fastest and least risky route is going back to university and getting a masters.

Sorry but have to disagree. Qualifications can be great for some jobs but in IT things move very fast and by the time you qualify something new will come along. There is also a glut of qualified people on here who complain they can't get a job in IT because they have no experience. There is more to someone than just a piece of paper which says they can study.

If you have the skills but not the experience then look at freelancing to showcase your work. Look at sites like odesk. You can do work in your own time so no need to leave your current job if you have one.

Flyonthewall

Amazin wrote: »

I also asked in another forum and I got this response:

is that true about network security/system adminstration?

The problem with web development is that everyone thinks they can do it. You have all these sites that offer click and drag website creation and people suddenly think they're amazing and can do it for a job.

They can't and the bright pink and red website with bright green links and the images copied from Google they think is so good is one they should be fined for and forced to take down.

Ok, most aren't quite that bad but you get my point. They don't know about design, they don't know about copyright, they don't realise all the coding that goes into it they don't know about SEO and so on.

However, it is because of them that even businesses will use that rather than go to a professional. Similar thing for software as there are some click and drag app creators and things like that, although most cost. The Internet is very popular, everyone wants a website and it's unlikely that business will be bad for those who do it. Same for software development. Probably won't be a shortage of people but it doesn't mean it's not something you can get into and if you enjoy it then that's surely the better option over something that may be more needed, but no one can know for sure.

tomterm8 wrote: »

With a degree, and if you want a job like that, your fastest and least risky route is going back to university and getting a masters.

Bobster64 wrote: »

Sorry but have to disagree. Qualifications can be great for some jobs but in IT things move very fast and by the time you qualify something new will come along. There is also a glut of qualified people on here who complain they can't get a job in IT because they have no experience. There is more to someone than just a piece of paper which says they can study.

I agree with this.

Idiophreak

Bobster64 wrote: »

Sorry but have to disagree. Qualifications can be great for some jobs but in IT things move very fast and by the time you qualify something new will come along. There is also a glut of qualified people on here who complain they can't get a job in IT because they have no experience. There is more to someone than just a piece of paper which says they can study.

If you have the skills but not the experience then look at freelancing to showcase your work. Look at sites like odesk. You can do work in your own time so no need to leave your current job if you have one.

Meh, I'm not sure I agree. Technologies move on, sure, but principles and paradigms are slower to shift...Computer Science rarely focuses on the latest and greatest technologies, but it goes give a solid understanding of how computers (and coding) fundamentally work.

It also opens the door to a lot of the graduate schemes...

Clearly experience is still critical to differentiate yourself from the crowd, but I don't think a masters would hurt...

Flyonthewall

Idiophreak wrote: »

Meh, I'm not sure I agree. Technologies move on, sure, but principles and paradigms are slower to shift...Computer Science rarely focuses on the latest and greatest technologies, but it goes give a solid understanding of how computers (and coding) fundamentally work.

It also opens the door to a lot of the graduate schemes...

Clearly experience is still critical to differentiate yourself from the crowd, but I don't think a masters would hurt...

Companies want experience. Sure, qualifications help, but it's the experience that really matters. So is it worth spending years and ending up with massive student loans to learn the foundation of development and not know the latest coding? Especially considering the OP appears to has little knowledge of development now and probably can't say for sure whether they'd even enjoy doing that as a full time job.

Course, OP could look online and do more basics before doing a degree but even then there is so much to learn now and there will no doubt be far more by the time they've finished the degree. Those in the trade can sometimes struggle to keep up. OP has to catch up on years worth and then learn all the years worth that would be happening while they were studying.

Not saying it's a bad idea, but I certainly think OP should think very carefully before deciding to do a degree.

Idiophreak

Flyonthewall wrote: »

Companies want experience. Sure, qualifications help, but it's the experience that really matters. So is it worth spending years and ending up with massive student loans to learn the foundation of development and not know the latest coding? Especially considering the OP appears to has little knowledge of development now and probably can't say for sure whether they'd even enjoy doing that as a full time job.

I'm not convinced experience in the latest coding is *that* important to most places for junior roles. Everywhere I've worked (all the way from start ups to fortune 500), we've taken on graduate or junior developers straight out of university and provided them with training in the relevant technologies once they turn up. Work experience is a sweetener on a CV, but isn't strictly a requirement.

More fundamental is that enthusiasm for IT is paramount...and that's normally demonstrated by *some kind* of personal experience of tinkering with code, pulling computers to pieces or whatever else. People who think that going and doing a computing degree alone entitles them to, or makes them suitable for, a job are much mistaken.

I wholeheartedly agree, however, that it's a lot of money to spend unless you're 100% sure it's the career for you...

Flyonthewall

Idiophreak wrote: »

I'm not convinced experience in the latest coding is *that* important to most places for junior roles. Everywhere I've worked (all the way from start ups to fortune 500), we've taken on graduate or junior developers straight out of university and provided them with training in the relevant technologies once they turn up. Work experience is a sweetener on a CV, but isn't strictly a requirement.

Perhaps it depends on where you live because where I live everyone wants at least 3 years+ experience for the most basic of jobs. Different area of work but I've seen must have 5 years+ experience on a very basic admin job.

I can design and code a website, I have qualifications that include that (not a degree, but still) and yet I can't get a job. Did volunteer work which involved some web content work too but despite the length of time I did it it's still not enough for the length of experience they all want. I admit I'm not entirely looking to just do web development but I've applied for many jobs which have that element and got nowhere.

Perhaps the latest coding isn't always needed but it's bound to help. Not all companies move forwards with the coding but if coding over the next year or so changes in any way then it's more likely that by the end of a degree most companies will be using it. They've had time to learn it themselves and see the benefits and so on.

More fundamental is that enthusiasm for IT is paramount...and that's normally demonstrated by *some kind* of personal experience of tinkering with code, pulling computers to pieces or whatever else. People who think that going and doing a computing degree alone entitles them to, or makes them suitable for, a job are much mistaken.

Again, hasn't helped me I agree though that enthusiasm for IT is certainly needed and a computer degree alone is not enough.

I wholeheartedly agree, however, that it's a lot of money to spend unless you're 100% sure it's the career for you...

Indeed.

Idiophreak

Flyonthewall wrote: »

Perhaps it depends on where you live because where I live everyone wants at least 3 years+ experience for the most basic of jobs. Different area of work but I've seen must have 5 years+ experience on a very basic admin job.

Sadly, that's kind of the nature of things..the most basic jobs can afford to be picky, as there are so many people applying...all you can do is try and make sure you're the one that gets picked.

I can design and code a website, I have qualifications that include that (not a degree, but still) and yet I can't get a job. Did volunteer work which involved some web content work too but despite the length of time I did it it's still not enough for the length of experience they all want. I admit I'm not entirely looking to just do web development but I've applied for many jobs which have that element and got nowhere.

Being blunt, there's plenty of people out there that have degrees *and* experience, so employers can afford to be choosy - and just knocking out anyone that doesn't have a degree from the process narrows things down quickly. Not saying it's right, or that everyone does this, but a lot of employers will just chuck your CV away without a degree - which is why I wasn't completely dismissive of the Masters plan.

Perhaps the latest coding isn't always needed but it's bound to help. Not all companies move forwards with the coding but if coding over the next year or so changes in any way then it's more likely that by the end of a degree most companies will be using it. They've had time to learn it themselves and see the benefits and so on.

Sadly, this isn't really how stuff works, particularly in larger companies.

If you get a degree, for the most part they'll teach you Java, or C#...there will be modules on other stuff, some C++ probably, maybe some OpenGL graphics, web services, xml, things like that...but they're generally very general - on purpose - because they don't want to teach you how to code <insert fad technology here> and have it be worthless by the end of the course. Solid O-O programming will be useful for decades yet.

Also, the industry doesn't move as fast as you might think. For starters, something like 80% of dev work out there is in legacy systems, doing support and maintenance, upgrades, migrations, integration etc. You'd be amazed by the number of VB6 jobs that still come through my inbox. That leaves, say, 20% doing greenfield where there's the *opportunity* to use newer technologies...And that opportunity is rarely exploited. Companies like to hit their estimates...using something new introduces risk...using something they've used for years and done a dozen systems in is a known quantity...So while there are jobs (especially in the front end) where technologies will churn rapidly, I'd say these are in the minority.

Once you've got a solid programming base, most stuff's just syntax - you just pick up the latest things as they come and go....

Jakg

A Computer Science degree is a fantastic springboard if you want to get a job as a software engineer etc - but it's certainly not a pre-requisite, and it's a pretty serious thing to undertake when (no offence) you don't really know what you want and you don't seem to have much enthusiasm for any specific area.

getmore4less

Good quality skill can get you jobs, even starting with basic testing, that can lead to automation so coding of some sort often scripting which is good enough to get started.

The great thing about a lot of developers is they are not that good so leave plenty of work for QA people

A lot of people don't like doing QA so the money can be good for relatively easy stuff. if you have any experience in a field that uses any IT products that can be a way in.

Gavin83

No offence, but it does come across a little like you've done a search for 'well paid jobs' and simply selected one from the list rather than choosing a path you'd actually enjoy.