Halifax - February +2.4%

wotsthat

A short while ago we were discussing a 'debt junky' who said rising prices would allow them to drop a LTV band and save £2.5k/ year. I suspect you had kittens when you realised that rising prices could indeed 'put money in people's pockets'.

..and here we are now discussing chocolate buttons, whether Tesco's care about whether money going through their tills is from a pay rise or a cost saving elsewhere and we'll probably end up talking about the relative merits of pockets vs wallets.

Graham I salute you. You have no equal when it comes to forumonics.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Graham I salute you. You have no equal when it comes to forumonics.

To be fair, it was basic common sense.

Someone said something. I said it's not correct as it doesn't put more money in your pocket.

It then turned into this as people piled in.

Don't blame me entirely. I played the forumonic game this time and even had a chuckle with MFW, but everyone else was playing it too, including yourself.

mayonnaise

Ok after another exhilarating episode of the Graham Devon show, can we now all agree that pjread will have more money left in his pocket on a lower LTV or do we need 5 more pages of this?

pjread wrote: »

Well, I owe about 165k right now. Keeping it as a flat balance for ease, at 3.99% - best I could get on 90LTV - that's around £6,600 interest. As 2.39% (what I could get now on a 3yr fix at 70LTV from a quick look, I could do a bit better on a 2yr) it'd be under £4k interest.

MFW_ASAP

mayonnaise wrote: »

Ok after another exhilarating episode of the Graham Devon show, can we now all agree that pjread will have more money left in his pocket on a lower LTV or do we need 5 more pages of this?

Only if that money was invested and generated an income.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

To be fair, it was basic common sense.

Someone said something. I said it's not correct as it doesn't put more money in your pocket.

It then turned into this as people piled in.

Don't blame me entirely. I played the forumonic game this time and even had a chuckle with MFW, but everyone else was playing it too, including yourself.

More excellent work. It's masterful how you, again, sidestep the fact that increasing prices can allow people to drop an LTV band and increase their monthly spending power.

MFW_ASAP

wotsthat wrote: »

More excellent work. It's masterful how you, again, sidestep the fact that increasing prices can allow people to drop an LTV band and increase their monthly spending power.

I thought we were talking about pockets and buttons, where does LTV come into this??

wotsthat

mayonnaise wrote: »

Ok after another exhilarating episode of the Graham Devon show, can we now all agree that pjread will have more money left in his pocket on a lower LTV or do we need 5 more pages of this?

Yes. PJRead's housing costs will fall as a result of rising prices.

It's possible that if he needs to move then these savings may be lost as a result of having to pay more for a house and that, longer term, his overall cost of housing may increase. Graham could have said this rather than going through his song and dance routine.

mystic_trev

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

I thought we were talking about pockets and buttons, where does LTV come into this??

I thought this thread was about the Halifax Feb figures? Perhaps I've entered into another dimension :eek:

somethingcorporate

Today I had a letter through from the nationwide, I have remortgaged onto a lower rate fix due to an increase in price (indexed by themselves) and as a result my mortgage payment will be dropping from £990 per month to £820 per month or so.

How will I not have more money in my pocket? I will have about £170 per month in my pocket as I have reduced my expenses.

I genuinely don't understand your argument here Graham. Can you spell it out like I was five?

Money in your pocket doesn't refer to what is coming in, (as far as I am aware) it refers to what you have left when you take off your expenses from your income. If I did keep all my money in my pockets the situation (aptly timed for this very discussion) I would genuinely have £170 more per month to spend on ipads and iphones and whatnot.

Graham_Devon

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Today I had a letter through from the nationwide, I have remortgaged onto a lower rate fix due to an increase in price (indexed by themselves) and as a result my mortgage payment will be dropping from £990 per month to £820 per month or so.

How will I not have more money in my pocket? I will have about £170 per month in my pocket as I have reduced my expenses.

I genuinely don't understand your argument here Graham. Can you spell it out like I was five?

Money in your pocket doesn't refer to what is coming in, (as far as I am aware) it refers to what you have left when you take off your expenses from your income. If I did keep all my money in my pockets the situation (aptly timed for this very discussion) I would genuinely have £170 more per month to spend on ipads and iphones and whatnot.

I really cannot be bothered any longer.

It depends entirely on which angle you are coming from as to how you will see it. You are seeing it from the point only after you have spent everything you need to. I'm seeing it from the starting point.

You will save £170.

You won't have gained an extra £170. The money you had initially was always the same amount, you are just spening less of it.

The point put forward much earlier in the thread was that rising house prices puts money (as in extra money, new money) in your pocket.

That's not really true. Afterall, if it were, anyone on a 5 year loan who extended to 20 years and reduced payments (but increased the loan) could say they are now much better off. But they are not, they are actually worse off.

Withe the method you are using, should you go out with £200 to spend on a night out and came home with £40 leftover, you'd consider yourself £40 better off as you spent less than you planned for.

With the method I am using I'd go out with £200, come back and think I'm £160 worse off.

In both scenarios, neither of us have any extra money in our pockets. We started with £200 and now have £40.

I really don't see how it's that hard to understand. I just think we are looking at it from two differing perspectives. Money saved is not extra, new money.

Retails prays on this sort of stuff, suggesting if you buy this new coat you will save yourself £20 as its been reduced from £100 to £80. No, you've spent £80, you haven't saved anything.