Professional Gambler - Submit Tax Assessments?

hennerz

I'm approaching the 2 year mark since I became a professional poker player, over this period I have made an effort to cash out a good amount each month, to make it look as steady and consistent as a normal job.

In this period I have not submitted anything to the HMRC, nor have they asked me for anything.

Looking forward I would like to have the possibility (albeit thin) of using my 24 months earnings as proof of income for a mortgage. However I understand that proof is normally given through an SA302 form.

Can I get an SA302 even though I pay no tax on my earnings? Can I do my tax assessments for the past 24 months now?

Pennywise

Gambling isn't a taxable trade.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm

If it's not taxable income, then there's nothing to report to HMRC and there'd be nothing shown on an SA302.

arichmond64

You have zero chance of getting a mortgage if you are a professional poker player.

I'm susprised you are even asking this, as a poker player you should already know the skepticism it meets when people find out about it.

bluep

I would also keep detailed records and evidence of what you have won and when. It can be very difficult to defend a HMRC enquiry when they are looking at lifestyle / house purchase etc... with no employment or trade apart from gambling. You might never get anything from them, but if you do, you'll thank your stars you kept decent records.

chrismac1

See my other posts on this subject. In my view, successful bettors need to get a tax shield in place in order to avoid UK taxes on it. However, this is a more favourable jurisdiction than other countries, such as USA or Australia.

The reason you need a tax shield is that whilst gambling is not a taxable trade the profits are potentially subject to income tax if they are sustained.

hennerz

Pennywise wrote: »

Gambling isn't a taxable trade.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm

If it's not taxable income, then there's nothing to report to HMRC and there'd be nothing shown on an SA302.

Thanks.


So there is no way that I can tell the HMRC how much I have earned as non-taxable income and for them to acknowledge this and confirm there is no tax to be paid?

They will only acknowledge taxable income?

chrismac1

You are opening up a hornets nest here. I was in a highly profitable betting tips sharing syndicate from 2002 to 2007. I was part-time so my sole or main income was my PAYE job.

Two key features of the 2 full-timers in the team who were UK-based:

1. They were very thankful they were not in other jurisdictions.
2. They bought rental properties and other businesses to declare to HMRC to ensure they did not pay tax on their winnings. NO WAY would they even think about doing what you are suggesting!

You must be able to find other profitable UK based poker players, I am confident they'd tell you the same thing. Of course once your book "Hennerz on Hold 'Em" hits the shelves, that's a different story.

hennerz

Who told you about the book?!

GRM

Getting a mortgage as a pro poker player is difficult but not impossible. Search on blonde, THM, 2+2 etc. and you'll find a number of threads from those who have done it.

hennerz

It seems that my best chance of getting a mortgage would be to buy a BTL property with cash, then refinance after 6-9 months, possibly then I could use the income generated from that property to obtain a residential mortgage, using the money I took out the BTL as a deposit?

PlymouthMaid

I actually thought that if you were a professional player you did need to declare to the tax man but most would be out of the country enough to escape tax. Anyway my main point was going to be that if you are really a good poker player then you most likely will not need a mortgage to buy a house.