The changing face of the middle class

BobQ

misskool wrote: »

Actually, one of the biggest problems in HE at the moment is too many PhD's and too many postdoctoral workers chasing very very few permanent positions.

There is a trend for short term solutions, "training" PhD students and fixed term contract workers but the number of permanent jobs haven't increased by near the amount of postgraduate students. So you get a glut of very well trained workers on low wages.

The problems are many fold but the one thing this country isn't short of is PhD's!

Fair enough, but its not just HE that employs PhDs. Whether there is a surplus of PhDs in general I do not know.

misskool

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Don't a lot do a PhDs or Masters because there aren't suitable work positions for them to actually move into?

I know one guy who has a Masters working on virtually minimum wage, short term contract who lacks social skills, common sense and will probably always struggle in the world of work.

Keeps the Universities going no doubt.

You sort of want to do a Master's because almost no Master's courses are funded. These are the real cash cows for the universities, designing Master's courses that will bring in the money and only have to teach students for a year.

a PhD interview (for funded places) will weed out those who think they can just "drift" into a place rather than actually have the drive and determination to do it.

BobQ wrote: »

Fair enough, but its not just HE that employs PhDs. Whether there is a surplus of PhDs in general I do not know.

Of course not, but it's how far you want to upskill a job. Many call centre jobs have so many graduate applicants that now it seems to work in a call centre you need a degree! PhD's work in a large number of sectors and across many area (including business and finance) but there is a serious problem with the numbers being churned out but there is no move to stem the tide.

Nikkster

misskool wrote: »

a PhD interview (for funded places) will weed out those who think they can just "drift" into a place rather than actually have the drive and determination to do it.

In theory, anyway

I'm 99% sure my MSc swung it for me getting my current (1st proper 'career') job.

The last uni I worked at definitely ran a lot of 'cash cow' MScs though.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

Fair enough, but its not just HE that employs PhDs. Whether there is a surplus of PhDs in general I do not know.

China is churning out more than the USA now. But discoveries are harder to come by. So technological progress on the face of it has slowed.

Generali

There's been some really interesting stuff on FT Alphaville about this and also about the upcoming robot revolution.

Part of the problem for the middle classes is the disappearance of a lot of the entry jobs. Things like being a bank teller or an administrator have been largely IT'd out of existence. In my world, due to computers we can run a lot more money with a lot fewer people than in the past. We have assets of about $150,000,000,000 and including sales staff we can look after that with fewer than 1,000 people. 30 years ago, the same sized book would have needed 10x more people at a guess once you adjust for inflation.

The robot stuff fascinates me but I don't want to drag this off topic. Even the current state of robotics even has an impact on what most countries would consider to be middle class employment such as factory foremen.

chucknorris

I'm not sure what middle class means these days, does it have any relevance? Is it more to do with money, education or employment, or a combination of all?

Generali

chucknorris wrote: »

I'm not sure what middle class means these days, does it have any relevance? Is it more to do with money, education or employment, or a combination of all?

In most countries it's simply about income: if you earn more than average then you're middle class.

In the UK, one of the few countries left in the world to take class seriously, it's about where you went to school, whether you are blue or white collar, whether you drink wine or alcopops and a host of other nonsenses.

chucknorris

Generali wrote: »

In most countries it's simply about income: if you earn more than average then you're middle class.

In the UK, one of the few countries left in the world to take class seriously, it's about where you went to school, whether you are blue or white collar, whether you drink wine or alcopops and a host of other nonsenses.

Yes it is very muddled and confusing, just as well I don't really care, apart from being amused by those who think it is important.

I remember one guy at work who used to say the middle class get the train to work and the working class get the tube (as you can probably guess he got the train). Totally rubbish of course, but it was amusing that he thought it important to consider himself as middle class, and even more amusing that he felt it important enough to let others know.

Generali

chucknorris wrote: »

Yes it is very muddled and confusing, just as well I don't really care, apart from being amused by those who think it is important.

I remember one guy at work who used to say the middle class get the train to work and the working class get the tube (as you can probably guess he got the train). Totally rubbish of course, but it was amusing that he thought it important to consider himself as middle class, and even more amusing that he felt it important enough to let others know.

LOL. The working classes of Chelsea get the tube whilst the middle classes of Croydon take the overground!

The single thing that I miss least about the UK is the class system. I am extremely blunt with British ex-pats that try to import it.

chucknorris

Generali wrote: »

LOL. The working classes of Chelsea get the tube whilst the middle classes of Croydon take the overground!

The single thing that I miss least about the UK is the class system. I am extremely blunt with British ex-pats that try to import it.

Exactly, it is a great area for comedy. I find it can be great fun when people take themselves too seriously with regard to 'class', to be honest I don't really have any class perceptions. You are probably right it is more (if not entirely) a British thing.