Help ! Cant find help on your threads. Restricted 2 hrs. Applying to POPLA.

Legacy_user

I have read your advice thread over the past week and was wondering if you can help as I don’t feel that I fit into any of your threads?


I live in England. I am the registered keeper of my teenager’s car but my teenager is the owner of the vehicle (this way because insurance was cheaper and I can keep a close eye on his driving, speeding, tickets etc). My 18 yr old, parked very late in the evening to attend a local event and calculated to be back in 2 hrs as the event was a five min’s jog away, however the event was policed and crowds were held back in the street, teenager doesn’t know why, but jogged back and was nineteen min’s over the restricted time, the car park had a few other cars on it and looked closed but a camera must have photographed the car when exiting- 19 min’s over the restricted 2 hrs. Very dark picture as it was late in the evening but shows his reg and bright headlights etc.


Parking control got my name and address from DVLA. The invoice (I will call invoice 1a) offers me the chance to pay £100 as the driver breached parking T&C’s which were agreed when ‘YOUR VEHICLE’ (meaning me who isn’t the owner and they should know this as they claim to have checked with DVLA) was parked on private land. It also states the driver was issued a parking charge of £60 but didn’t pay- which we knew nothing about until after my reply to them, as it went to the wrong address. Invoice 1a is addressed to me and asks me to pass the letter onto the driver and provide their name and address so they can pursue the driver. I declined to pay but did provide the driver details and returned it to them, which after reading the forum I now realise I shouldn’t have done- Judas!



In the same reply I made a soft appeal to the parking control explaining why I declined the offer to pay the fee on the grounds ‘The Fee is Disproportionate’ According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the proposed figure you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner.
The parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The wording in the invoice indicates that the charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract and therefore the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss.


If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific reason raised in my letter.



However they replied again (addressed to me not the driver) that the parking charge was correctly issued as vehicles are not permitted to park for over 2 hrs and that this was clearly stated on signs. It states their charges are not punitive, unfair or unreasonable and are inline with British Parking Association’s guidelines… liquidation damages… Eitherway parking chargesare enforceable and do not mount to a penalty the onus of proving the amount is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge was claimed)!
1) Pay the reduced £60
2) Make an appeal to POPLA with in 28 days… Which isn’t that far away now.

Today after receiving letter2, which offers the chance to pay £60 and a POPLA ref number, I decided to gather all mail together then noticed on the original letter ,I will call letter 1b which went to the wrong address, although the car is clearly identifiable. It has the time, date, head lights and reg number, in white font, at the top of the picture. However this letter has an image of a vehicle entering the car park with no reg number on it, but does show two front headlights, time and date in white font and underneath - but separated from the picture - a copied and pasted image of the same reg number stating Arrival with time and date, and the total of 19 minutes over stay charged at £100 and an offer an early payment of £60. Therefore I now question if they can prove this to be the same vehicle as there is no reg number on it or is it common practice not to show the reg number, please advise? There is also a website address in which they claim you can see other images of the vehicle however when I go on to this site it is just a home page, how to pay, etc no images what so ever I therefore wonder if they can legally remove them after so long or may be I just can’t navigate the website correctly.


Would you pay the £60, which we can easily afford, or hold out for the POPLA decision on principle? What is the common average fee if it goes to court etc?


What now?
I look forward to your reply.
Thanks.

Stroma

If you've appealed to popla wait for that, but what wording have you used there? They don't do mitigation so if you have used that then it will fail. Please post up your appeal wording

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Appeal to Popla: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822
Which parking company?, ukpc by any chace?
dont bother with anything that happened on the day etc or anything that isnt in the help thread

And no dont pay

System

Thanks for your reply
I haven’t actually appealed to POPLA yet. I’m useless at navigating forums(only ever done this once before) and thought this would reach Coupon-mad or sticky, as they have a lot of advice on there and claim they are 100% successful in helping with POPLA, so I would really appreciate their advice too.

Stroma

This is an information thread only, I will ask a forum guide to split your post away from here

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Their advice is all on that link

Hot_Bring

This might be a silly question !

I know what a Registered Keeper is but what makes an owner ? How is that differentiated ?

I ask as it sounds suspiciously as though you have made yourself the RK and then insured yourself as the main driver and added your child as a named driver.

You need to be careful if that is what you have done.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Hot_Bring wrote: »

This might be a silly question !

I know what a Registered Keeper is but what makes an owner ? How is that differentiated ?

I ask as it sounds suspiciously as though you have made yourself the RK and then insured yourself as the main driver and added your child as a named driver.

You need to be careful if that is what you have done.

The RK is not always the legal owner,

System

No no no, I am not even the named driver, another member of my family is as this helped to bring my teenagers fees down to £2800. Teenager owner, another family named driver and I'm the registered keeper.

Responsible parent who can keep an eye on my teenagers driving behavior- tickets speeding etc, and have the power to smack, bang, wallop and confiscate if needed. Also responsible for checking tyres, MOT, Tax etc

More importantly, we have very strong morals and would always ensure my teenager abides by the law and always have done. To be honest I would have paid this only for seeing this site which exposes crooks who can also take advantage of an 18 yr old. But not on my watch- Lol!
Hope this is clearer

System

Thanks Storma.

I understand this now after further reading . I will look at some more examples and then post up my appeal.

System

Hi,

I live in England.

I am at Part 12 of the Walk Through instructions for the appeal to POPLA and would like to know if I should use the same appeal I used to the Private Parking Company or other. They got my name and address from DVLA and are pursuing me the RK although I am not the owner or even a named driver, although other named drivers are on the policy, so I definitely wasn't the driver. Nothing illegal either but with certain insurance companies this LEGAL way reduced eighteen-year old's (owner) insurance fee to £2800 during the height of the insurance gender changes 2013- Earned his own NCB. For example LV, Hastings, etc.


Despite replying to PPC they are pursuing me as RK and have provided me with a POPLA number. I am not sure what to put as my appeal, the same as what I appealed against with PPC or other
I have been reading the forum advice over the past few weeks and was wondering if you can help as I don’t feel that I fit into any of your threads as my issue involves a 2hr restricted parking car park (not a ticketed machine) a retail company car park in which the two stores were closed, as it was way after 9pm when the driver was caught leaving by a camera, less than 2hrs 15 mins later- very dark picture with rear headlights, dates and time and clearly shows the reg number.


I ask if I should appeal on different grounds because of the following reasons. After following advice on this forum and going through all paper work I noticed :


• The arrival photograph shows headlights, date, time, etc, but I genuinely feel it could be any vehicle and they could have made it look like the one in question. They have put the reg plate in what could be a copy and paste grid underneath, but separated from the actual photograph; which has black dots either side of actual reg plate, to resemble reg plate screws, which aren’t shown on the entering photograph. Although this could have been done deviously but would they really stoop this low? I was wondering if they might be calling my bluff, as many others who attended the local event were entering, bumper- to- bumper, like you might see at a busy gig or football match, no barriers to let vehicles in or out individually, and no attendant around to ask for advice or to give a reason for an unforeseen over stay- which I now genuinely feel was part of the reason for the actual over stay which PPC claim is fifteen min’s. The event was a five min’s jog away, however it was policed and crowds were held back for a few min’s in the street, teenager doesn't actually know why but thinks there was a scuffle between crowd members, but jogged back, searched for an attendant which could be the reason why the driver was fifteen min’s over the restricted time, the car park had a few other cars on it and looked closed but a camera photographed the car when exiting.

• OMG POPLA’s appeal dates on the PPC latest letter “pay or appeal 28 days from receiving this letter ” DOES NOT TALLY according to the POPLA checker linked to the Stickles thread/forum as the dates are over ten days out. So I had better get a move on.

Parking control got my name and address from DVLA. It also states the driver was issued a parking charge of £60 but didn’t pay-which we knew nothing about until after my reply back to them, as it went to the wrong address. Invoice is addressed to me and asks me to pass the letter onto the driver and provide their name and address so they can pursue the driver.
I declined to pay or to pass on to driver but did provide the Owner details and returned it to them. In the same reply I made a soft appeal to the parking control explaining why I declined the offer to pay the fee on the grounds


• ‘The Fee is Disproportionate’ According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the proposed figure you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner.

• The parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The wording in the invoice indicates that the charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract and therefore the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific reason raised in my letter.

However they replied again (addressed to me not the driver) that the parking charge was correctly issued as vehicles are not permitted to park for over 2 hrs and that this was clearly stated on signs. It states their charges are not punitive, unfair or unreasonable and are inline with British Parking Association’s guidelines… liquidation damages… Either way parking charges are enforceable and do not mount to a penalty the onus of proving the amount is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge was claimed)!

1) Pay the reduced £60
2) Make an appeal to POPLA with in 28 days… Which isn’t that far off now due to the dates being wrong and not tallying.

Please help
Thanks.