Who's to blame? (Mis-selling land with property)

PartTimePete

Hi Guys
Excuse my first post; I did a quick search but couldn't find anything on Google or this forum that matched my scenario.

We bought our current property in Jan 2006 as a detached cottage with approximately 2 acres. We had a home buyers report with the Woolwich (our mortgage company) and that also stated just under 2 acres on three occasions. The agents we bought from stated 2 acres (STS) and the previous agents that marketed it also stated it was 2 acres (STS).

So, fast forward 8 years and now we're selling up. Our estate agents did an online survey of the land and came up with a very different figure; 1.1 acres!! No boundaries have changed and no land has been sold- it's simply a case of we bought 1.1 acres even though we were told by agents, the vendors and our home buyers survey that we were buying approximately 2 acres!! Awesome :mad:

So, where do we stand? I was reluctant to start a slagging match with anyone at this stage and would prefer to get some impartial advice before I proceed. I appreciate that a lot of time has passed but we have had no need to check the measurements of our plot and it's only come to light now that we're selling.

So in summary
-We were told by agents, vendors and survey that our property had approximately 2 acres
-We actually bought 1.1 acres
-Do we have any recourse and if so, with whom?

Many thanks
PTP

casperlarue

2 acres is roughly 8000 sq metres, or 0.8 hectares. Thats a plot of say 80m x 100m. has someone along the way up muddled up acres and hectares? As you seem to have 'lost' a lot of land!

AlexMac

Hopefully you'll get some informed opinion here, but is it worth a call or email to your original conveyancing solicitor to check their view of the likelihood of redress? I know a lot of time has passed, but we have gone back to our one (who, admittedly, is ace, and who we've used a couple of times over the years) and she's answered a Q or 2 up to 2 years after com-letion- with no mention of fee, as generally a conveyance is done at a standard cost.

My gut feeling is that it will be hard to make this stick, as one of the things our brief does is to send us the land regsitry plan to ask us to visit, inspect and verify that the boundaries are as described - she even asked us to check that trees subject to TPO were still there.

If yours was as thorough, that might undermine you case...?

nidO

I'm curious to know where the actual discrepancy in these figures is. By this I mean:

Are the boundaries of the land you own correct, and you just didn't know what size areas these boundaries represent?
Or
Are the boundaries you thought you were buying incorrect and have you now found out from the land registry that almost an acre of land you thought was yours is in fact not yours?

If the former, you probably have very little recourse here. If you bought a set plot of land with defined boundaries and the area within these boundaries is just not as (incorrectly) calculated, you haven't really lost anything as you bought a set piece of land and still have that land, it's just not as big as expected but is something you could verify at any time.
If the latter and you've found out that land you thought you'd bought is not in fact yours, the first thing to do will be to query the solicitors who handled your purchase to find out what documentation they have on the boundaries of what you were buying, to find out whether those show the land that is now actually yours, or what you (incorrectly) thought would be yours.

It might also be worth verifying the figured provided by your current agents - You can review the land registered to you via the land registry yourself, find out what the land registry agrees that you own and work out the size of the land, to see if you do in fact own 1.1 acres or 2.

PartTimePete

Great advice so far, thank you

When I was told of the land measurements by our current selling agent, I asked him for the name of the software he used to calculate the land size. He gave me the details and also suggested that I try a few online tools for my own purposes so I tried 3 for myself. Each piece of software returned very similar results, and all 3 were near as damn it 1.1 acres.
This simply is a case of me thinking that we were buying two acres and actually we bought a lot less. I know I have to accept some 'blame' in as much as I assumed that when professionals like estate agents and surveyors state in writing that something is 2 acres then it will be. I honestly thought we had done everything correctly!

Our solicitor asked us to check the boundaries were correct at the point of completion and they were. We signed accordingly (so I guess this rules out a claim against him). Land registry only shows the boundary outline with no stated sizes of plot.

So this leaves us with either the estate agent that we bought from although their bumpth does state (STS) everywhere although even with this, surely they have a degree of duty of care to make sure facts are at least roughly accurate? The other third party is the Woolwich who charged us over £900 to complete a survey prior to us buying. Their report stated on three separate occasions that it has 'just under two acres'

societys_child

PartTimePete wrote: »

-Do we have any recourse and if so, with whom?

When I bought my current property, I remember that I signed something to say that I had checked the Title/ deeds/ area plan (etc) and I was happy that they were correct (or words to that effect)

If you signed something similar, I'm not sure you'd have any comeback on others.

PartTimePete

societys_child wrote: »

If you signed something similar, I'm not sure you'd have any comeback on others.

Thanks You're right, I would have signed something like that. My point is, I didn't physically know how big 2 acres was so I trusted the agents/surveyors etc to measure that for me. They either didn't measure it or did so inaccurately so who is to blame? I paid my money for their professional services so I find it hard to accept that something that I signed with a solicitor stops me from taking someone to task if they were incompetent (also, surely the thing I signed with the solicitor covers only the solicitor and maybe Land Registry??)

G_M

1) Were the physical boundaries of the land in the place where you expected them to be when you bought? Did you inspect the land and understand what yo were getting for your money?

2) Does the Plan attached to the Land Registry Title show the boundaries in the same place as the physical boundaries in 1) above?

3) Did you ever measure the land yourself?

DaftyDuck

In your op, OP, you twice refer to "2 acres (STS)"... Subject to Survey... It was only an estimate of the land area, not a quote that could be relied on.

The Homebuyers Report would be the one that would be responsible for confirming the area - if area of lands is covered in their remit, and I doubt it would be, for Homebuyers tends to limit itself rather to specifics.

I trusted the agents/surveyors etc to measure that for me. They either didn't measure it or did so inaccurately so who is to blame? I paid my money for their professional services...

Note that you didn't pay the estate agent - the seller would have done that. Solicitors generally - and yours appears to have done this - ask you to check the borders fit with what you think you are buying, and have no way of checking on-the-ground detail like this.

So, the surveyor would be the only person with any responsibility here, I'd imagine. Unless you specifically asked him to provide an accurate measure of the area you were buying, I doubt he'd have an answer. However, you might just have some come-back if the survey specifically stated that the area was 2 acres.... which it appears to so do.... Question is, is this a clear enough statement that you could rely on it, and what would your actual loss be if the area was smaller.

You did get the land you believed you were getting (no loss of a field, which happened to my dad in the 60's), albeit the actual measurements weren't right.

Is it a peculiar shaped plot? I looked at a smallholding in Kent and, however I measured the area, it came up wildly different every time. I didn't pursue it, as there was a massive building plan for the area, but I couldn't have stated whether I was getting 5¾ or eight acres...

PartTimePete

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No

PartTimePete

DaftyDuck wrote: »

However, you might just have some come-back if the survey specifically stated that the area was 2 acres.... which it appears to so do.... Question is, is this a clear enough statement that you could rely on it, and what would your actual loss be if the area was smaller.

Is it a peculiar shaped plot?

Very clearly stated on three separate parts of the report

Yes, it's between 40 and 90ft wide and about 1/4mile long.