A little bit of direction please - Self employment

crantinope

Okay, there are so many things to write, but in a nutshell, just wondered if there was anyone to contact (other than CAB) to help my partner:
I will be as brief as possible using bullet points:

There are 3 people working at the salon, a teenage employee, an twentysomething self-employed and my partner.

*JUST TO CONFIRM, MY PARTNER HAS NOT YET SIGNED ANY CONTRACT, BUT HER COLLEAGUE WORKS UNDER THE SAME ONE*

• Partner went self-employed at a hairdressers on 01/11/13
• Was previously an employee there
• Was told it would be more beneficial(for both parties)
• Received P45, registered as Self-employed with HMRC
• Terms were 55/45 split in partners favour, with monthly license fee of £109

Now so far so good. Partner had asked other friends about the benefits and was told "you get your money as you go", which was great as no more being paid monthly.
Now Salon owner downloaded a National Hairdressing Federation contract and filled in the dates of Services/License invoice dates and added a few additional bits of info about what was for use and what not in the salon, so still all OK.
Now in that 1st month (yes it was a new experience for partner going self-employed) all payments from clients went into the business till, and at the end of the month the Salon owner basically paid a wage, minus their cut of 45% and the license fee into partners bank account. Now hindsight is a wonderful thing, but that didn't seem quite right to us, so thee following events happened:

• I would like this money weekly please as I am now self employed and these are my takings and I pay you your split at the end of the month as per the contract

• No, sorry that is not happening, it would be too difficult to do it on a weekly basis, and besides, I am not going to hand over the takings of the business and wait for my payment, what business does that?. This is the normal way it works.

Cue a standoff regarding this and other details of the contract, but in addition to this,
the Salon owner has now realised they are not getting a good enough deal out of the arrangements and now wants to either increase their amount of the split or increase prices, or a combination of the 2

• Has put a password on the computer system stopping the 2 self-employed people from not only making any client amendments, but also viewing the daily/weekly earnings totals (on which their payments are based
• He originally cited Data Protection blah blah as the reason
• Has now given the "employed" 19 year old least experienced member of the 3 the password

Now both my partner and her colleague both have so many issues they need to discuss with someone (National Hair Fed won't talk unless you join for £130), not least, worrying that owner will turn round and say "if you don't like it F*** off, but they both now want to leave but are basically in limbo.
I think the salon owner thought that they would both just take it because they had seen a rise in their money, but there are so many things that are not right:

• Technically not his clients to raise prices on
• Giving ultimatums on reducing wage
• Treating and paying them both as employees
• Crossing out the standard half mile radius line in the contract and adding a 2 mile limit on the "setting up elsewhere within 6 months clause" (which incidentally means that the whole town in which we live is excluded (is this unfair contract?)

Now obviously this is sensitive because even though it is clear the salon owner is in the wrong on so many levels, they both don't want to lose jobs over trying to get the right thing sorted (don't forget, my partner has no contract in place".
The did have a meeting with the CAB locally, but they have no one "legal" to help out.
Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers....Nick

crantinope

A gentle "Any help" type bump

Fran

Hi,

They could try ACAS

sniggings

crantinope wrote: »

Okay, there are so many things to write, but in a nutshell, just wondered if there was anyone to contact (other than CAB) to help my partner:
I will be as brief as possible using bullet points:

There are 3 people working at the salon, a teenage employee, an twentysomething self-employed and my partner.

*JUST TO CONFIRM, MY PARTNER HAS NOT YET SIGNED ANY CONTRACT, BUT HER COLLEAGUE WORKS UNDER THE SAME ONE*

• Partner went self-employed at a hairdressers on 01/11/13
• Was previously an employee there
• Was told it would be more beneficial(for both parties)
• Received P45, registered as Self-employed with HMRC
• Terms were 55/45 split in partners favour, with monthly license fee of £109

Now so far so good. Partner had asked other friends about the benefits and was told "you get your money as you go", which was great as no more being paid monthly.
Now Salon owner downloaded a National Hairdressing Federation contract and filled in the dates of Services/License invoice dates and added a few additional bits of info about what was for use and what not in the salon, so still all OK.
Now in that 1st month (yes it was a new experience for partner going self-employed) all payments from clients went into the business till, and at the end of the month the Salon owner basically paid a wage, minus their cut of 45% and the license fee into partners bank account. Now hindsight is a wonderful thing, but that didn't seem quite right to us, so thee following events happened:

• I would like this money weekly please as I am now self employed and these are my takings and I pay you your split at the end of the month as per the contract

• No, sorry that is not happening, it would be too difficult to do it on a weekly basis, and besides, I am not going to hand over the takings of the business and wait for my payment, what business does that?. This is the normal way it works.

Cue a standoff regarding this and other details of the contract, but in addition to this,
the Salon owner has now realised they are not getting a good enough deal out of the arrangements and now wants to either increase their amount of the split or increase prices, or a combination of the 2

• Has put a password on the computer system stopping the 2 self-employed people from not only making any client amendments, but also viewing the daily/weekly earnings totals (on which their payments are based
• He originally cited Data Protection blah blah as the reason
• Has now given the "employed" 19 year old least experienced member of the 3 the password

Now both my partner and her colleague both have so many issues they need to discuss with someone (National Hair Fed won't talk unless you join for £130), not least, worrying that owner will turn round and say "if you don't like it F*** off, but they both now want to leave but are basically in limbo.
I think the salon owner thought that they would both just take it because they had seen a rise in their money, but there are so many things that are not right:

• Technically not his clients to raise prices on
• Giving ultimatums on reducing wage
• Treating and paying them both as employees
• Crossing out the standard half mile radius line in the contract and adding a 2 mile limit on the "setting up elsewhere within 6 months clause" (which incidentally means that the whole town in which we live is excluded (is this unfair contract?)

Now obviously this is sensitive because even though it is clear the salon owner is in the wrong on so many levels, they both don't want to lose jobs over trying to get the right thing sorted (don't forget, my partner has no contract in place".
The did have a meeting with the CAB locally, but they have no one "legal" to help out.
Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers....Nick

sorry but as they are not employees then the bottom lin is the owner can ask them to leave at any time.

As for the till, all s/he has to do, and should be doing anyway is keeping track what clients s/he has and the money earned.

To be fair to the owner, moost business settle bils at the end of the months, it's up to the owner to say I will pay for your services each month, if your partner disagrees then they can work somewhere else.

Your partner has decided they want paid weekly, they can do that, but the owner can rightly say, sorry I'm paying for your serives then money is mine until I settle your bill and I choose to do that at the end of the month.

You can never win this argument.

If you do, the next day the owner says, sorry your services are no longer required.

2 miles to be sounds fair, if your partner disagrees then s/he shouldn't sign.

I think the best thing s/he should do is start handing out cards with s/he details on, so when they do move they, s/he can take his/her clients with them.

tbh the problems don't sound that bad IF the owner is reasonable to work with apart from what you mention, my guess is they are not so best look for somewhere better.

Sorry but looking for someone to fix this is never going to happen, it's down to your partner and the owner to come to an agreement.

crantinope

sniggings wrote: »

To be fair to the owner, moost business settle bils at the end of the months, it's up to the owner to say I will pay for your services each month, if your partner disagrees then they can work somewhere else.

They are self-employed, he is not paying them for their services, they rent a chair from him

sniggings wrote: »

Your partner has decided they want paid weekly, they can do that, but the owner can rightly say, sorry I'm paying for your serives then money is mine until I settle your bill and I choose to do that at the end of the month.

They are self-employed, he is not paying them for their services, they rent a chair from him

sniggings wrote: »

If you do, the next day the owner says, sorry your services are no longer required.

1 month notice period

sniggings wrote: »

2 miles to be sounds fair, if your partner disagrees then s/he shouldn't sign.

Forcing them to go ang get a job in another town is fair?

sniggings wrote: »

Sorry but looking for someone to fix this is never going to happen, it's down to your partner and the owner to come to an agreement.

There will be no agreement, he is claiming they are self-employed (They are), but treating them as employees for his own and the business' purposes

sniggings

crantinope wrote: »

They are self-employed, he is not paying them for their services, they rent a chair from him

I will refer to your partner from now on as "partner" as I do not know the sex

The client pays the shop for a service not your partner, so the shop gets the fees, it's up to the shop when they pay your parnter, that's just fact, if I hire a plumber they work for me, they give me a bill and I decide when I pay them, the plumber may ask for payment within 7 days, it's up to me if I listen to that.

They are self-employed, he is not paying them for their services, they rent a chair from him


1 month notice period by agreement, no law on a month notice.

Forcing them to go ang get a job in another town is fair? your parnter is unlucky if they are on the edge of a town or in a small town, most towns are bigger than 2 miles, if they allow them to set up within an area of less than 2 miles, the new shop might as well be next door, there would be no point, so yes 2 miles sounds fair to me, remember your partner does not have to agree.

There will be no agreement, he is claiming they are self-employed (They are), but treating them as employees for his own and the business' purposes thats up to your parnter, they either accept it or look for a new place, sounds harsh but that's the way these things work, complaining about passwords to the till is daft, it's up to the owner how they give a password to, yes it's childish but they is no law to stop it

sorry if it sounds harsh, but complaining about tills etc is daft, either accept it or look for a better shop.

As said your parnter needs to come to an agreement, both parties have a right to put forward rules but it's up to both sides whether they accept them, if they don't they either move on or put up with them.

theoretica

you might find this interesting reading: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vtaxpermanual/vtaxper69100.htm

I note among other points be free of restrictions about the sale, disposal or relocation of the business.

cattermole

I tend to agree with the advice given.

You only have to look at how literally thousands of Appco/Cobra "employees" are treated and they are all working on a self employed basis.

The HMRC do not seem to give a jot about it, they clearly should not be self employed but they are.

Money is kept in bonds, all sorts of stuff goes on.

Next time someone knocks on your door trying to get you to donate to charity, swap electricity or whatever they will probably be working for one of these companies.

If I was them though I wouldn't worry too much about the 2 mile clause, especially if it has been changed and nothing signed.