UK promises to guarentee Scotland's debt post independence

Generali

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

This isn't a new situation. It must have been faced dozens of times before as different countries in the Empire and Commonwealth achieved full independence, so I would imagine there is a well-worn precedent.

What happened to Australian debt in 1901? Indian debt in 1947?

Kenyan, Rhodesian, Canadian, etc etc up to Hong Kong?

Is the UK still guaranteeing the entire colonial debt of half the world?

Isn't the difference that they were colonies whereas Scotland freely signed up to be a member of the United Kingdom?

Also, Scotland brought debt to the Union, none of those other places did.

So all-in-all, quite different.

Loughton_Monkey

Generali wrote: »

Isn't the difference that they were colonies whereas Scotland freely signed up to be a member of the United Kingdom?

Also, Scotland brought debt to the Union, none of those other places did.

So all-in-all, quite different.

You are right. All very different.

But having said that, I do feel that it's time for Her Majesty, in these austere times, to get her servants to work hard and 'prove' how much we 'invested' in our former colonies, and seek to get the money back by sending them a very large bill.

Or instead, introduce a "Colony Tax". Something quite simple. Nothing grand. Something like a cash payment (to UK) of, say, 2% of GDP - paid on the nail every quarter - from USA, Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Hong Kong, India.....

This should have us back on our feet in no time.

Generali

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

You are right. All very different.

But having said that, I do feel that it's time for Her Majesty, in these austere times, to get her servants to work hard and 'prove' how much we 'invested' in our former colonies, and seek to get the money back by sending them a very large bill.

Or instead, introduce a "Colony Tax". Something quite simple. Nothing grand. Something like a cash payment (to UK) of, say, 2% of GDP - paid on the nail every quarter - from USA, Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Hong Kong, India.....

This should have us back on our feet in no time.

I'd love to see HMRC try to collect the tax from the Americans! There would be a smoking hole in the Atlantic Ocean where a country formerly known as Great Britain used to sit.

If you go to a restaurant in London called Rules, there is a section of the wine list entitled, 'Wines from the Former Colonies'.

moneyistooshorttomention

Have I got something wrong somewhere then re the former Colonies? I rather thought that the balance sheet goes as follows = our British ancestors took everything they could from our former colonies and the balance sheet would therefore go the other way.

Therefore...things get left "As is" because we cant be held liable (either legally or morally) for what our ancestors got up to (ie not ourselves in the generations alive now).

zagubov

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Apparently Alex Salmond is declaring that the financial markets stampede to avoid anything to do with Scottish borrowing two years before they can even become an independent country is - a great success for Nationalism.

I'm not really sure he understands why the UK treasury had to do this...

Apparent only to you. Has anybody else "heard" of this? I'd be surprised if he thought this was anything but an inevitable decision of mutual benefit.

System

Generali wrote: »

Isn't the difference that they were colonies whereas Scotland freely signed up to be a member of the United Kingdom?

Also, Scotland brought debt to the Union, none of those other places did.

So all-in-all, quite different.

Here we are are, the analysis of the situation by the first Indian Finance Minister after independence, explaining how they are in discussion about apportioning debt between the successor nations:

http://indiabudget.nic.in/bspeech/bs194748.pdf


Notice that he is not proposing to abrogate debt incurred before 1947, but is at pains to explain his responsible financial measures to ensure continuity.

Loughton_Monkey

Generali wrote: »

.....If you go to a restaurant in London called Rules, there is a section of the wine list entitled, 'Wines from the Former Colonies'.

Ha!

Priceless....

Nuits St Georgia
Cote du Rhodesia
Pinot Nicobar
Pouilly-Fiji
Cook Islands Sherry
Gewurztrinidad
Tobagonilla

I'll stick to my Zinfandel-boy

Loughton_Monkey

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Have I got something wrong somewhere then re the former Colonies? I rather thought that the balance sheet goes as follows = our British ancestors took everything they could from our former colonies and the balance sheet would therefore go the other way.

No. You clearly have a warped sense of history.

Armed invasion of a foreign country, followed by colonisation, extraction of large quantities of natural resources, putting legal claim upon major chunks of habitable land was also accompanied by granting "work opportunities" for the locals.

Hence these activities clearly go down as "Investment Programmes for the benefit of developing countries."

It's roughly equivalent to Water companies and Railway companies here. You may think their extortionate above-inflation charges are because of the need to spend oodles of cash continually patching up clapped out signals, clapped out rolling stock, clapped out sewers, and paying obscene bonuses to the directors.....

But actually this is "Investment of our Infrastructure".

Let's keep our sense of Political Correctness......

baldelectrician

Several things

The UK government issued the debt, so only the UK government is liable for it- it it were to be partly transferred to a newly independent Scotland this would count as a UK default.

On the debt to GDP ratio - Scotland may fare better than the UK at debt.

Current UK to GDP= 76% - including Scotland's oil and assets

Post Scottish independence (assuming NO sterling zone) -
UK GDP ratio 105%
Scottish GDP ratio 70%

The facts (as the Scottish Government say in their white paper) are that Scotland accept a fair share of UK debt, but want a fair share of UK assets

On the point about assets- land locked assets (such as oil, coal etc) are determined by geography

Other assets- such as the Bank of England, foreign embassies, warships (as they are mobile) will be split on a % basis

For reference I have put a map showing Scotland's fishing / oil rights below- from the BBC




The following sites are good reference material, particularly

businessforscotland.com



http://www.newsnetscotland.com

http://www.wingsoverscotland.com

http://www.bellacaledonia.org.uk

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk

http://www.womenforindependence.org

http://www.YesScotland.net

http://www.labourforindy.com

http://www.reidfoundation.org

http://www.scottishcommonweal.org

http://www.nationalcollective.com

http://www.scotreferendum.com

http://www.derekbatemandotnet1.worldpress.com

http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk

purch

For accuracy sake, it should be pointed out that the debt was issued by the Debt Management Office (which is an executive agency of HM Treasury) on behalf of the U.K. Government.