I may have to repay 3 years of my NHS Pension

retirednurse

In tax tears 2007/8, 2008/9 I earned approx £17k a year as a part time specialist Staff Nurse working for the NHS at my local Hospital.

In July 2009 I stopped work after earning approx £7k to care for my sick elderly parents at home. They both died later that year. I then stopped work until just before my 55th birthday in October 2010 when I took my NHS pension. I returned to work in September 2010 as a Bank Nurse so that I was on the payroll to be able to take my pension as an employee.

I retired from the NHS in Nov 2010 and started receiving my pension.
After retiring my local Hospital wanted me to continue working as a Specialist Bank Nurse to cover Staff Shortages. So being aware that there were limits to how much work I could do as an NHS pensioner I contacted the NHS Pension Agency and my local NHS HR/Finance department who both told me I could return to work as a Bank Nurse as long as I worked no more than 16 hours a week. These were both done via the telephone.

I returned to work carefully monitoring my hours to ensure I was working less than 16 hours a week.

In November I received a letter from the NHS Business Service Authority (NHSBSA) re the NHS Pensions Data Matching 2012 exercise suggesting I may fall into the category where I have earned more money than I am allowed by NHS pension rules.

They suggest an abatement of pension may apply and I may have to repay any overpaid money. (this may be be approx £18k)

This may mean that I have to pay back (and as such lose) the 3 years of NHS pension that I have been paid effectively meaning I have done 3 years work for nothing.

On returning to work I acted on the advice from my local Hospital HR/Finance Department and the NHS pensions helpline and was not attempting to earn more money than I was allowed to or in anyway defraud the NHS pension.

I called the NHSBSA and at the moment they are unable to advise me any further as they do not yet know my earnings from the years before I retired. They suggested that the amount I was able to earn each year from work and the NHS Pension combined was just £7k a year (my final years salary before retiring) which is less than my annual pension. (approx £8k)
This appeared to cause them some concern as the final years salary is usually higher than the Annual Pension. I am awaiting a response from them.

i am very concerned that after following advice from both my employer and the NHS Pension helpline I may have to pay back 3 years pension.

After speaking to the NHSBSA I have cancelled any further shifts and have stopped work until I hear back from them. This has caused some problems with staffing at the local hospital who still want me to work as they have a severe shortage of Specialist Nurses in my area.

I have been told by the NHSBSA that if I had done this work through any agency or via any organisation other than the NHS it would not affect my pension. So now I have to register with an agency to do the same work at much greater cost to the NHS. Is the world going mad!!!!

I am expecting the NHSBSA to want to reclaim all of my pension payment as they suggest my final salary was less than my pension.

From talking to other people this is also happening to other NHS employees and Teachers so If you have have retired and have continued working make sure you contact the NHSBSA to confirm how much you can earn before affecting you pension.

Can anyone advise me on what action I need to take to resolve this please.

Greeniron

I'd suggest contacting the Pensions Advisory Service for free information and advice, their number is 0845 601 2923.

If you have been misinformed by your employer or NHS pensions, you may be able to raise a complaint against them; TPAS will be able to go through the procedure with you.

Generally, payments over your strict entitlement need to be returned, though this should be by installments a reasonable rate, particularly if you couldn't really have noticed the error yourself. That said, the Pensions Ombudsman has upheld complaints in recent months saying money did not have to be refunded if out had been spent in good faith.

xylophone

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/Working_After_Retirement_Factsheet_(V2)_04.2012_.pdf

Is this relevant to your case?

Drp8713

Have you had a look at this and seen what category you fall in to?

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/Working_After_Retirement_Factsheet_(V2)_04.2012_.pdf

hyubh

retirednurse wrote: »

I contacted the NHS Pension Agency and my local NHS HR/Finance department who both told me I could return to work as a Bank Nurse as long as I worked no more than 16 hours a week. These were both done via the telephone.

Looks like the people on the other end of the line were reporting the general case:

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/Working_After_Retirement_Factsheet_%28V2%29_04.2012_.pdf

Rather unforunate they didn't report the bit at the end as well, viz., on getting a written response from Xafinity Paymaster before returning to work.

They suggest an abatement of pension may apply

"Abatement is the process by which your NHS pension is reduced pound-for-pound if your earnings on re-employment in the NHS, plus the enhanced element of your NHS pension, exceed your pre-retirement NHS pensionable earnings."

"The enhanced element of your pension is the difference between the pension you are actually receiving and the pension that you would have received if you had retired on the same day on the grounds of voluntary early retirement, and received an actuarially reduced pension."

http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/pensions/faq-abatement#What%20is%20the%20enhanced%20element

My gloss (with the caveat I've never dealt with NHS pensions!):

• The normal retirement age in your scheme (or more exactly, your section of the NHS scheme) was/is 60.
• As such, while it is possible for anyone in that section to take their pension from age 55, doing so would lead to an 'actuarial reduction' to reflect the fact the scheme would be paying out a pension longer than otherwise.
• The amount reduced would depend on your age and sex, i.e. being a woman 5 years away from the section's regular retirment age. For a 'finger in the air' figure, you might assume a reduction of 25%.
• The difference between the unreduced and reduced pension here is called the 'enhanced' element of your pension. So, using my 'finger in the air' figure, that would make the 'enhanced' element of your pension 8000 x 25% = £2000.
• That said, if you fulfilled certain conditions (and you did), you could draw it at 55 without those reductions.
• Nonetheless, the caveat was that 'abatement' would apply if your post-retirement earnings plus the 'enhanced' element of your pension were/are higher than your earnings on retirement.
• Significantly, the earnings in question are actual not whole-time equivalent - in contrast, pension benefits are worked out using whole-time equivalent pay figures (and pro-rating the service for part time working).
• As such, the maximum you could earn would have been something like 7000 - 2000 = £5000 (I'm using the 7K from your second paragraph, not the 7K mentioned later on).
• You haven't said how much you have earned after going back to work, though if we say 11K pa then the total overpayment would be (11000 - 5000) x 3 = £18000.

This appeared to cause them some concern as the final years salary is usually higher than the Annual Pension.

Dearie me - was this HR or Xafinity? If you reduced your hours near the end, then it would be perfectly normal for many years service to produce a pension higher than your final actual salary.

I am awaiting a response from them.

You have my sympathies - they sound a right shower!

i am very concerned that after following advice from both my employer and the NHS Pension helpline

No chance you took down any names at the time...?

I have been told by the NHSBSA that if I had done this work through any agency or via any organisation other than the NHS it would not affect my pension.

Right, because it would be a different employer.

So now I have to register with an agency to do the same work at much greater cost to the NHS. Is the world going mad!!!!

You know the stories in the press every so often about a high-ranking council employee getting early retirement from one council before starting part time with another? In essence, abatement rules are partly to prevent that, though oddly enough they are actually weakest in the latter-day LGPS compared to other public sector schemes.

Can anyone advise me on what action I need to take to resolve this please.

It's not much help, but if you can marshal any evidence of what was said three years ago, it will put you in good stead. At the very least you should be bargaining for paying back the money in interest-free installments.

retirednurse

Many thanks for all for the advice its very helpful.

Greeniron - Thanks, I will contact the Pensions Advisory Service when I get a response from Xafinity i am sure they can help. i will also contact the Royal College of Nursing as I am a member and they must have some experience of this.

Xylophone and DRP8713 - I am a Member of the 1995 Section and as such have special status which means that I was able to retire at age 55 with a full pension based on the amount of years I have worked in the NHS. Adjusted for the many years that I worked part time. This is what I did in November 2010.

It took over 9 months for the NHS pensions fund to get the details of my pay from the 2 NHS Trusts that I worked for so although I retired from 1st November the pension finally started in March of 2011 backdated to Nov 2010.

The fact sheet is much clearer than the documentation that I have from 2010. I note the date at the bottom of the fact sheet is 04/2012 I will look and see if I can find an earlier version.

HYUBH
The final years salary is usually higher than the Annual Pension this was a quote by Xafanity when I spoke to the lady handling the case a few weeks ago. She is checking this as she could not give an answer at the time.

The are waiting for salary figures from the NHS Trusts that I worked for before they can calculate how much I can earn (if anything).
I have all of my payslips, P60s, P45s and Tax Returns so to help them and to speed up the process I am going to copy these and send then to the lady at Xafinity.

Having had verbal confirmation from NHS Pensions helpline and my employer I did not get a written response from Xafinity Paymaster before returning to work. With hindsight I should have requested a letter.

Over the 3 years I have earned £18000, If they use my last years salary before I retire then I will probably have to pay it all back, If they use the best of my last 3 years salary (as used for my pension calculations) then I will have to pay back approx £4000.
If I had not had the advice from the Helplines and my employer then I would have contacted Xafinity and have avoided this problem by working for an expensive agency.

I have itemised phone bills for the period and also my own notes from the calls that I made with some names.

I am now registering with Nursing Agencies so I can continue working .

Alongside this the local hospital is emailing staff pleading for them to work over the Christmas period as they do not have enough staff. All very frustrating.

Thank you all for your help its appreciated.

Dunroamin

Have you been in touch with your union about this?

retirednurse

Also I will argue why have they waited for 3 years to raise this rather than raising it after the first or second year.

retirednurse

I will be contacting the RCN (my union) when we get a reply from Xafinity and have more information to work with.
Thanks

xylophone

I am a Member of the 1995 Section and as such have special status which means that I was able to retire at age 55 with a full pension based on the amount of years I have worked in the NHS.

So following the information in the booklet, you retired after 5 April 2008 with Type 6 "Age Benefits" (unreduced pension) as a member of the "special classes" 1995 section?

Again, following the booklet,

"In the case of type 6 pensions, abatement applies where the earnings from re-employment plus the gross annual pension exceeds the earnings before retirement. The reduction can be up to
the total value of the annual pension and will continue until the pensioner reaches age 60 or the
earnings from re-employment reduce sufficiently.

In all cases, the gross pension amount used in the calculation is the amount of pension before reduction to pay for any optional bigger lump sum."

The fact sheet is much clearer than the documentation that I have from 2010. I note the date at the bottom of the fact sheet is 04/2012 I will look and see if I can find an earlier version.

Were you actually provided with a copy of this leaflet appropriate to the year you retired?

retirednurse

Thanks for all of your help.

Having waited 5 weeks for a reply from NHSBSA and after numerous calls I called them again and they have confirmed verbally (a letter is on its way) that they had been given incorrect salary figures from the people who now administer the payroll at my current and previous employers.

Luckily I have earned just below the earnings margin in each year since I retired in 2010.

So after lots of worry and hours of preparation for an appeal and various legal challenges I will not have to pay back 3 years salary and in fact have to pay nothing back.


If you are a Nurse in the 1995 scheme and you retire before age 60 and you restart working for the NHS then you MUST contact NHSBSA to confirm how much you are allowed to earn each year before they start reclaiming your pension payments NHSBSA are the only people who can tell you this total.

Since I retired they have improved the information that they provide but its still not totally clear.

Thanks again for your help from a very relieved retired nurse. I can now restart work at the start of the new tax year and I will have a figure from the NHSBSA that tells me how much I can earn each year without affecting my pension.
I do not understand why this figure is not provided on your final pension statement as it would make the situation clear. I intend to take this up with the NHSBSA.