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You've Never Had It So Good....
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Loughton_Monkey wrote: »I often wonder the degree to which our nation's "Political Correctness" is partly to blame.
In the years up to 1960, UK citizens (male) all entered National Service. I have never heard that any 'harm' was done to the well being or future character of the individuals. But once enrolled in that period of service, I strongly suspect that if one or more of a platoon tended to be scruffy, unshaven, oversleeping, non-compliant, then I don't believe they took the miscreant to one side, in a nice office, where some 'outreach' seargeant would seek to 'engage' the conscriptee and encourage him to comply with a 'model' set out for the 'programme'.
Rather, I suspect words such as "Now look here you lazy slob. If you are not here. Every day next week. On time, shaven, and tidy, your pay and rations are suspended. You'll be painting stones white until midnight, and any leave is cancelled!"
I believe the latter worked. The former wouldn't have.
I'm not advocating reintroduction of National Service for all. But I would strongly advocate that rather than 'benefits' [for people not disabled] I would prefer to offer an "Employer of last resort" at some special national wage. This would be an 'army' of people available every day for local needs such as pond cleaning, road gritting, footpath maintenance, railings painting, and countryside litter removal.....
The principle is perhaps correct but let's not bring back the workhouse.
Plus the problem with your example is that all those currently earning a living from pond cleaning etc would suddenly be plunged into a new level of poverty. And that poverty would creep as more and more jobs were dragged into the definition of work for paupers.
Our current system is a long way from perfect but it has many advantages.0 -
One of my clients killed themselves last month because he was sanctioned for attending an interview during a sign-on appointment....
... all very sad, but how sure are you that the sanctioning was the only (or prime) cause? Suicides are more usually characterised by a huge bag of relationship problems, coupled with several other hassles from police, probation, or social services agencies, and yes, sometimes money issues as well.0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »... all very sad, but how sure are you that the sanctioning was the only (or prime) cause? Suicides are more usually characterised by a huge bag of relationship problems, coupled with several other hassles from police, probation, or social services agencies, and yes, sometimes money issues as well.
I'm very sure, personally.
It's not that he didn't have problems before the sanction. But, it's amazing how quickly you see people going downhill once they hit the streets. Every single issue you mentioned is made far worse, you lose almost all your friends, often your family, and you can't sleep and don't feel safe.“The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens0 -
Thank the Lord for that.
Can a $5k income in the UK provide housing, food, clothing, fuel and healthcare? Well done to the Guatemalans if they can pay for thousands of dollars worth of cancer meds from a $5k income or see their kids educated past basic literacy and numeracy.
Anyone adult that thinks they have it bad in the UK simply doesn't see the bigger picture.
That reminds me of something, oh I remember
‘Are there no prisons?”
‘Plenty of prisons,’ said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.’And the Union workhouses.’ demanded Scrooge. ‘Are they still in operation?’
‘Both very busy, sir.’
‘Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,’ said Scrooge. ‘I’m very glad to hear it.’'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Didn't quite work for the Krays?Loughton_Monkey wrote: »
Rather, I suspect words such as "Now look here you lazy slob. If you are not here. Every day next week. On time, shaven, and tidy, your pay and rations are suspended. You'll be painting stones white until midnight, and any leave is cancelled!"
I believe the latter worked. The former wouldn't have.
..'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
That reminds me of something, oh I remember‘Are there no prisons?”
‘Plenty of prisons,’ said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.’And the Union workhouses.’ demanded Scrooge. ‘Are they still in operation?’
‘Both very busy, sir.’
‘Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,’ said Scrooge. ‘I’m very glad to hear it.’
.. and that reminds me of something written by George Bartley [an actual workhouse guardian in Ealing] in 1876...Englishmen as a rule are proverbial for their independence, courage, and reliance on themselves, and if anything tends more than another to condemn the present administration of the Poor Law, it is the fact that so many thousands are kept chronically in this state of abject dependence upon the dole of relief.
Still true today.0 -
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The thread is titled ‘you’ve never had it so good’. It could just as easily be titled ‘what you don’t know can’t hurt you’.
In any society, the powerful worry about maintaining and increasing their power whilst the weak worry about survival.
The definition of survival is as context-dependent as the definition of wealth.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »
I'm not advocating reintroduction of National Service for all.
We already have it it is called University these days and the recruit pays themselves (for now)."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Why do you think people in the UK sleep outdoors?
AIUI, the reason is because they have, most often, severe mental health problems which they are unable to address. It's not about poverty, it's about illness.
I am glad you recognise it as an illness at least. An illness that ends up in poverty for many.
With limited and curtailed budgets for treatment or rehabilitation.
Perhaps we should be working out why many end up in this situation in the first place."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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