Triple Dip

michaels

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881

In economics their is rarely the opportunity to explore 'counter-factuals' - what would have happened if a different policy mix had been followed. However for the last two years whilst the UK has at least paid lip service to austerity via shrinking the state as well as increasing taxes, our near neighbours with a very similar sized economy have tried something under Hollande much more akin to what Milliband and Balls are proposing, trying to avoid cuts and balance the budget by increasing taxes, especially on the richest.

Of course it is a long game but currently the evidence suggests that it is not the French who are in the lead. Is 11% unemployment a price worth paying for a 'more equal' society?

Generali

The French have had ~10% unemployment for decades and >25% youth unemployment. That very high youth unemployment is despite huge emigration of young French people.

You'd think that at some point they'd look at more successful countries and start to copy what they're doing.

Kennyboy66

I think in fairness France has significant structural problems that they seem unable to address. Specifically, restrictive labour laws that discourage hiring & remarkably short working hours.


On the positive side, their productivity per hour is way better than UK's and on a par with Germany.

Loughton_Monkey

His next 'masterstroke' is to raise tax to 75% for the top earners, and lower the retirement age to 60 [subject to 41 years' contributions].

Also, despite having more homes than they can shake a stick at, he wants another 150,000 "Social Homes", which I assume to be council houses.

I wish him all the luck in the world. Anyone who can demonstrate what happens when you get pure socialism in action gets my 'vote' provided they are a foreign country. It gives us all a yardstick and insight into what damage the Miliband/Balls duo will bring.

All I hope is that they do not raise the tax on wine and cigars. I really enjoy my booze cruises. Twice a year, typically. A £20 return day trip on P&O. £1,800 spent on cigars & wine saving at least £2,000. A nice £120 meal for two with a good wine at Le Channel or L'Aquar'aile [marginally better in my opinion], together with a nice piece of fresh French Bread with butter and another glass of good wine when we get back home is 'heaven'.

They are a "communist" country through and through. Not in the traditional concept of communism, but in the concept of devolving responsibility in military fashion down their never changing "commune" system. Fully staffed luxurious "Hotel de Ville" even though the local population might be 790 people, when it used to be 5,000.

I distinctly remember the 90's. Order came down from Paris... "Build More Roundabouts". Prior to that, roundabouts were few and far between outside major cities. Now (if you notice) they have about 30 million of them. Quiet country road... even quieter side road leading to a farm and three houses.... build a roundabout! Not only that, put a nice sculpture on it, and loads of shrubs. Jobs for the local peasants to keep it nicely trimmed!

.... grand gin et tonic tous les ronds.... :rotfl:

Road_Hog

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

On the positive side, their productivity per hour is way better than UK's and on a par with Germany.

Seriously? Have you ever worked with French people? Productivity doesn't come into it, they don't know the meaning of the word.

Jonbvn

Road_Hog wrote: »

Seriously? Have you ever worked with French people? Productivity doesn't come into it, they don't know the meaning of the word.

Having worked for a very large French company for over 5 years, I tend to agree. Some of the things I observed:

• 2 hour+ lunch breaks.
• A whole month off for "Les Grand Vacances" regardless of business requirements.
• Late starts and early finishes.
• Most Fridays are considered as half days.

michaels

I guess though that if you don't employ the least productive 11(+) % of your workforce then the average productivity of those who are employed is higher.....sadly although such an outcome doesn't appears to fit with socialist doctrine it is very much the outcome economics would predict for policies which the political left tend to push.

Kennyboy66

Road_Hog wrote: »

Seriously? Have you ever worked with French people? Productivity doesn't come into it, they don't know the meaning of the word.

Sounds a bit like "the french don't have a word for entrepreneur" - courtesy of George Bush

Not only are the french miles more productive the UK workers (per hour), investment has been greater than the UK over a long period (30 years).


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28c05518-7c2b-11e2-99f0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2nissvnaf

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/icp/international-comparisons-of-productivity/2011---final-estimates/stb-icp-final-estimates-2011.html

Kennyboy66

Jonbvn wrote: »

Having worked for a very large French company for over 5 years, I tend to agree. Some of the things I observed:

• 2 hour+ lunch breaks.
• A whole month off for "Les Grand Vacances" regardless of business requirements.
• Late starts and early finishes.
• Most Fridays are considered as half days.

Perhaps you could easily link to some statistics that demonstrate this awful productivity.

thick_tom

statistics can lie

Generali

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

Sounds a bit like "the french don't have a word for entrepreneur" - courtesy of George Bush

Not only are the french miles more productive the UK workers (per hour), investment has been greater than the UK over a long period (30 years).


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28c05518-7c2b-11e2-99f0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2nissvnaf

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/icp/international-comparisons-of-productivity/2011---final-estimates/stb-icp-final-estimates-2011.html

I think the penultimate paragraph from your FT link summarises michaels's point very nicely:

France’s primary problem is not the productivity of those in work. It is that restrictive labour laws penalise hiring, which leads in turn to higher unemployment. The “ins” are protected from the “outs”, which tends to increase labour costs. France’s costs have been rising more rapidly than Germany’s, so its competitiveness has deteriorated. Unemployment contributes to the budget problem through increased welfare payments, and makes cutting public-sector jobs more difficult.

I've worked for a few French companies and I can see why they'd get more per hour from their staff in some ways. Firstly they work fewer hours so tend not to spend time at their desks ducking around on Facebook and secondly their management tends to be more professionalized.

As for the higher investment? Staff are more expensive so of course companies invest more. High wages are great but I'd rather be employed at a fiver an hour than unemployed, not earning a tenner.