How old will you be when you can retire?

Loughton_Monkey

gadgetmind wrote: »

I like to think I can comprehend most points of view, but claims that saving for your own future and expecting future generations to cover your blank cheque amount to the same thing does leave me perplexed. If this is my fault, then I apologise.

I wish all of this and more to those who truly have made such provision rather than having just kicked the can down the road.

Given that he can't explain it, in words that normal intelligent people can understand, then I think we just have to put it down to a rather unique and convoluted view on how the economy works.

Meanwhile, as a well-off old fart, I shall continue to drip feed my [funded] pile back into the economy, fully cognisant of the fact that I am now keeping the hard-working man in employment. If he wants to view it as me "spending the UK GDP" at the expense of the hard-working man then let him dream.....

mandragora_2

I could go next year, if I wanted to... six months and counting. The way I feel this week (and for the past few months) I certainly won't be hanging around past my first 'Well, you could go now if you chose' point. I realised the other day that the sign of a life well-lived might just be to turn up your toes on the day that you're just about to be declared bankrupt, having spent every last penny (and then some!) and having enjoyed the lot.

CLAPTON

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Given that he can't explain it, in words that normal intelligent people can understand, then I think we just have to put it down to a rather unique and convoluted view on how the economy works.

Meanwhile, as a well-off old fart, I shall continue to drip feed my [funded] pile back into the economy, fully cognisant of the fact that I am now keeping the hard-working man in employment. If he wants to view it as me "spending the UK GDP" at the expense of the hard-working man then let him dream.....

I'm a little surprised that an inability to explain things to 'normal people' is a clinching argument;
given that 100% of economists and the vast majority of normal intelligent people are capable of understanding and agreeing with the Saving paradox (except of course yourself)

Loughton_Monkey wrote:

I am no Keynseyan, and so I pay little regard to him.

The paradox, even if true, was developed and promulgated as appropriate during times of recession. Since throughout a person's active adult life he sees possibly <10% of time in recession, it would be perverse to act on it throughout life merely because of it being marginally "bad" for the community 10% of the time!

As for every paradox, there is usually a 'mirror' that would say [in this case] during times of "boom" lack of saving is damaging to the economy as a whole?

Besides, his paradox was developed at a time when 'savings' meant cash under the mattress rather than deposits in the bank or in shares [thus fuelling borrowing and investment]. Also, it assumed an economy was an "island" so savings outside the UK economy wouldn't have the same effect anyway.

Keynes did not know of, or understand a global economy. Why should he?

Sounds like you want (like Keynes) some sort of "Socialist Idyllic Paradise" in which the whole economy is controlled centrally by the government. We would all work where we were sent, earn what we were given, buy what was supplied to us, and generally do what we are told. I seem to recall a couple of large economies who tried this. Didn't work. Complete disaster.

So in short, I reject this paradox completely and utterly.

And of course, you have proclaimed that much of government debt is funded by pension funds and obvious accept that that money 'in' funds current government expenditure and the later money out is funded by future taxpayer exactly like unfunded pension schemes

Loughton_Monkey wrote:

Was 35% overseas in 2011.

The vast bulk of the rest of UK debt is owned by pension funds. So technically not owed to UK citizens directly, but ultimately on our behalf.

and of course it's good to know you accept the Keynesian notion that spending money creates employment and GDP

have a happy christmas although I would suggest a healthy cycle ride rather than too many G&Ts

Loughton_Monkey

CLAPTON wrote: »

.....have a happy christmas although I would suggest a healthy cycle ride rather than too many G&Ts

I would, but I don't have a bicycle.

I would buy one, but am now too afraid how much it will cost today's working man!

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

the vast majority of normal intelligent people are capable of understanding and agreeing with the Saving paradox (except of course yourself)

Do you mean the Paradox Of Thrift? Sorry, but that's drilled through with holes and even dyed in the wool Keynesians struggle to defend it.

Good luck.

I would suggest a healthy cycle ride rather than too many G&Ts

I commute by bicycle and have done for many a year. My Audi A8 remains in the garage as a testament to both my wealth and thrift.

Loughton_Monkey

gadgetmind wrote: »

Do you mean the Paradox Of Thrift? Sorry, but that's drilled through with holes and even dyed in the wool Keynesians struggle to defend it...

... told him that!

CLAPTON

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I would, but I don't have a bicycle.

I would buy one, but am now too afraid how much it will cost today's working man!

as a fellow Keynseyian we can both agree that, in a time where there is a lot of spare capacity, that spending money will provide a stimulus to the economy and is wholly commendable and will allow the poor chap to contribute more to his funded pension scheme



happy christmas

grizzly1911

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Ah, you've capitulated and reverted to pathetic comments. I was wondering when that would happen (again).

I think you beat me to it in a least a couple of posts (again).

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

Do you mean the Paradox Of Thrift? Sorry, but that's drilled through with holes and even dyed in the wool Keynesians struggle to defend it.

Good luck.



I commute by bicycle and have done for many a year. My Audi A8 remains in the garage as a testament to both my wealth and thrift.

I'm happy to read any economic article on the subject supporting your view.