Charge Notice from CP plus

wap_2

Hi there.
I am new here.
Please can anyone advise me. I have received a " charge notice " from CP plus. My son overstayed in a council owned car park in Hatfield. Although council owned - is run by CP plus. This is free parking but only for 2 hours.


The charge notice was sent to me as the registered keeper, compliant with the time scales of POFA 2012.


Photographs have been taken of the times entered and exited - he was in there hours. ( ANPR ?? )


I have been reading a lot of these forums and will contest it.
I have read that the Notice to keeper must include the Date of Notice and Time of Notice. I can see that the charge notice states the Date of Notice , but not the Time of Notice which appears to make it POPA non compliant.


Can I please ask is the Charge Notice the same as Notice to Keeper and do you think this is enough to challenge it.


My son would be more inclined to pay it and would be intimidated by the process. However , I would like to challenge it if you think there is a chance.


I would be grateful if you could tell me if this already makes it non compliant.


Many thanks anyone

BrightonandHove

Are you sure it was a council owned car park ? I ask as I don't know of any council that outsources both the enforcement and the money collection. The former yes but not the later.

Who does it say you should pay ?
Does it mention POFA ? A council ticket doesn't need POFA to hold the RK responsible.
Does it mention under what legislation the infringement is claimed ?

wap_2

Thanks for replying so quickly
It says " our client WHBC Salisbury Square" which is free parking in the town of Hatfield. WHBC is the borough council.


It is definitely not a council ticket and states payment be made to CP Plus


It says the veh was in violation of the terms and conditions displayed on the signage


It doesn't mention POFA at all.

BrightonandHove

Very suspicious to say the least. I really don't believe the council would ask a private parking company to collect genuine fines - for starters they are unlikely to be on the GCAT list.

If I were you, I would contact the council parking department and say CP Plus are pretending to act on their behalf in said car park. See what they say.

You then have two outcomes :

1. The council say they are their agents so you ask them how you appeal ( i.e. ask the council ).

2. The council say CP Plus do not act on their behalf ( this is my bet ). If this is the case you should ask the council to investigate as CP Plus are being dishonest. At the same time email CP Plus to tell them that the council do not recognise their rights to issue tickets and therefore nor do you so they should cancel the ticket or provide a POPLA code.

wap_2

I did look at the councils website. They definitely do work on behalf of the council.


Would the notice be non compliant though with POFA as the law does state date of notice and time of notice to be given , and only date of notice has been given and not the time. Is this a valid challenge?

The appeals and complaints procedure is through them first , then POPLA

Many thanks

Coupon-mad

You do have a good point; if there is no 'period of parking' then they have failed to establish keeper liability, because the NTK upon which they are relying is fatally flawed under POFA schedule 4 paragraph 9. You are safe as the registered keeper, so keep it that way!

Just submit one of the 'appeals' as shown in the NEWBIES thread (several are linked there, or do a simpler one of your own). Just make sure you write as the registered keeper and do not imply who was driving (if you wish you can truthfully say you were not the driver and the driver will not be identified for the purposes of the appeal process). We would suggest that you add to the above point that the signs were unclear to the driver as they were very high and there has been no loss caused whatsoever so you expect the charge to be cancelled.

wap_2

Many thanks Coupon Mad.


The "period of parking" is definitely on the notice.
However, I have read that as well as giving you the "date of notice" they must also give you the "time of notice". ( as well as the period of parking ).


The wording on POFA states that they have to give you :
Date of notice - given
Time of notice - not given
although they have complied by giving the period of parking.
The date and time of notice are separate from the period of parking so I think on the small point they are non compliant.


I think what it means is they need to give you the time the notice was given as well as the date even though it was by post.


Maybe someone can clarify this point


Excellent point about the signs . Thank you

Coupon-mad

Have a look at paragraph 9 in the link to POFA 2012 in the newbies thread. A postal NTK doesn't have to have the time on it surely, that would be strange for a letter!

wap_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Have a look at paragraph 9 in the link to POFA 2012 in the newbies thread. A postal NTK doesn't have to have the time on it surely, that would be strange for a letter!

ah ha! Yes, I see what you mean, I had been looking at paragraph 7.


However , they do not mention POFA 2012 on the notice so I believe I am in right then in thinking they cannot pursue me as the registered keeper.

Coupon-mad

OK so maybe appeal and say summat as sarky as:


Dear Sir/Madam,
re ticket ref xxxxxxxxx
I am the registered keeper and this is my formal appeal to your postal Notice.

I see no reference to the POFA2012 in your Notice so I must assume you are operating a two-tier private PCN system and the version you have sent to me does not attempt registered keeper liability under that Act. So clearly one of my many appeal points at POPLA will be that as the registered keeper, I am not liable (however, I can appeal, as you will be aware from 22.14 of the BPA CoP).

Other points of challenge if you decide to fund my POPLA efforts will include the fact CP Plus are not the landowners and that in a free car park you have failed to show the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Good luck with that.

POPLA code or cancel please - and may I take this opportunity to pass on the compliments of the Season from the regular MSE parking forum advising members,

yours,

registered keeper's name.