Pension at 70? Throw a party.

CLAPTON

TruckerT wrote: »

I'm not sure about services, but many people say that we gave up making real goods soon after WW2.

Money, on the other hand, became super-dominant, and we paid the price in 2007/8.

TruckerT

Uk is the 6th largest manufacturer in the world

money as a proxy for goods and services has always been super- dominant

we are one of the richest people in the world and we live in a golden age;

even after 2007/8 my electricity still worked, my central heating still worked, shops had load of food, cloths, my hot shower still worked, transport everywhere stilled worked

you must live some-else

Loughton_Monkey

CLAPTON wrote: »

you either understand the difference between real goods and services and money or you don't

you either understand the close connection between real goods and service or you don't


you understand how taxes, wages, profit, pension payouts, inflation respond to a fall in real per capita goods and services or you don't

How very true!

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

even after 2007/8 my electricity still worked, my central heating still worked, shops had load of food, cloths, my hot shower still worked, transport everywhere stilled worked

you must live some-else

No, I'm one of the many who can no longer afford to leave the heating on all day.

Like I said, it's a slippery slope...

TruckerT

CLAPTON

TruckerT wrote: »

No, I'm one of the many who can no longer afford to leave the heating on all day.

Like I said, it's a slippery slope...

TruckerT

you really are determined to learn nothing but you are lucky to have been born in this wonderful country in this wonderful age rather than some poor African village or 100 years ago

vivatifosi

TruckerT wrote: »

I have the impression that China does very little for her unemployed, or for her elderly. China is also widening her empire, just as European countries widened their empires in earlier times (using force rather than funds).

What goes around, comes around. If and when China adopts the principles of democracy, then they will be at the top of a slippery slope towards unaffordability.

TruckerT

China has a very different culture, irrespective of politics. The Chinese respect and care for their elderly and respect the knowledge that they have built up over the course of their lifetimes. This is an oriental cultural model and is not unique to China.

The UK/US model is very much built on individualism, which is why multi-generational households are seen more as a burden and trade-off of freedoms. In other words, people here do it because circumstances mean they have to, or it is the least bad option, whereas in China it is more of a norm.

In more general terms, China has far more to deal with first. I wouldn't want to live there but can see it has done a phenomenal job in releasing people from grinding poverty bordering at times on famine.

CLAPTON

vivatifosi wrote: »

China has a very different culture, irrespective of politics. The Chinese respect and care for their elderly and respect the knowledge that they have built up over the course of their lifetimes. This is an oriental cultural model and is not unique to China.

The UK/US model is very much built on individualism, which is why multi-generational households are seen more as a burden and trade-off of freedoms. In other words, people here do it because circumstances mean they have to, or it is the least bad option, whereas in China it is more of a norm.

In more general terms, China has far more to deal with first. I wouldn't want to live there but can see it has done a phenomenal job in releasing people from grinding poverty bordering at times on famine.

during the great leap forward period (with the madness of cutting down all the trees to stop bird nesting in them), it is generally accepted that several million died of starvation

kabayiri

Increased life expectancy comes at a cost. As an example, dementia is set to treble worldwide in the next few decades. It's expensive to treat people with serious illnesses.

Also, if you get more of the poorer pensioners they are more likely to fall ill and consume yet more precious NHS resources.

It's more than just the amount of pension money.

vivatifosi

CLAPTON wrote: »

during the great leap forward period (with the madness of cutting down all the trees to stop bird nesting in them), it is generally accepted that several million died of starvation

Sorry, should have clarified, I mean in the post Mao period. As in how much better it has become since. I see Mao and the gang of four predominantly as evil b*stards.

ruggedtoast

There are many jobs where people can't keep going into their 70s. The mean age may be getting older but people aren't noticeably any healthier into their dotage, quite the opposite as far as I can see.

All this means is that many people will be out of work with years to wait until they can claim a pension.

Still, at least the people who matter are being looked after:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fat-cats-getting-fatter-bankers-bonus-culture-lives-on-as-millionaires-club-tops-2700-8972757.html

Loughton_Monkey

ruggedtoast wrote: »

There are many jobs where people can't keep going into their 70s. The mean age may be getting older but people aren't noticeably any healthier into their dotage, quite the opposite as far as I can see.

Which probably explains why the most 'draconian' future projections have people working only up to their 60's.

Probably the government/Health Service statistics for the whole population may well have rather more credibility than the random observations [of people you don't know, or a handful you do] of an individual Generation X-er

ruggedtoast wrote: »

All this means is that many people will be out of work with years to wait until they can claim a pension.

Anyone can claim a pension from age 55. It's only the State Handout that cannot be claimed until a certain age.

Have you totally ruled out the possibility that over the next 30/40 years, there may be such an increase in wealth for working people, coupled with a renewed propensity to save, that may cause people to retire in their early 60's on fat pensions - actuarily boosted for the temporary period without state pension?

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Still, at least the people who matter are being looked after:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fat-cats-getting-fatter-bankers-bonus-culture-lives-on-as-millionaires-club-tops-2700-8972757.html

Indeed they are. Nice if you can get it!

Would these £1 million+ bankers be.... er.... boomers by any chance? One assumes that none of them could possibly be from your own hard-pressed, downtrodden, priced-out, poverty-ridden, exploited and destitute generation!