Tax office saying underpaid tax yet again. Correct?

JustAnotherSaver

jem16 wrote: »

If she does not get payslips with the pension, then she should at least get a P60. What does that say?

I don't think she gets either. I'll have to ask & get back to you.

You may have missed one. What about April 2013 - there may have been one before April 5th.

Nope, i haven't missed any. I covered the dates. The payment came after the 5th.

Your mum should phone HMRC today and ask about the £2.7k and find out what her tax code was against the pension. With a personal allowance of £8105 and a deduction of £5458 for IB it should have been set at 264L but it clearly hasn't as she hasn't paid any tax on her pension.

First chance i've had to get online today. She'll have to call Monday now but i'll tell her this. Thanks.

I'd also ask about her tax code for this year so that these underpayments don't keep cropping up and as jimmo says find out why the tax code wasn't set correctly after the underpayment for the previous year.

Thanks.

agrinnall wrote: »

But that doesn't add up to 25 payments:

10 x 2 = 20
1 x 3 = 3
1 x 1 = 1

Total = 24

Amount paid = (23 x 210.10) + £205.64 = £4832.30 + £205.64 = £5037.94.

No.

April 2012 - 1 payment
May 2012 - 3 payments.
June 2012-March 2013 - 2 payments in each of those months
April 2013 - 1 payment
= 25 payments

xylophone wrote: »

Is the £2754 Bereavement Allowance paid for up to a year after her husband's death?

I don't remember my mum getting bereavement allowance. My memory is poor, but we've gone through both accounts of hers & looked at EVERY single entry in the money in column. Unless there was something between April 2012 up to Sept 2012 with Nationwide as her online account wont let us see those dates as they're more than 15 months ago.

She did get the bereavement payment that was a 1 off payment of about £2000, but this was paid in 2011.

agrinnall wrote: »

we have to go on what the OP said, and that comes to 24.

I've re-read what i said & what i said was that April 2013 comes under the 2 payments per month comment i made. This was a mistake. April 2013 had only one payment as they wont be making 2 payments within 5 days. I missed this one when explaining.

agrinnall

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

No.

April 2012 - 1 payment
May 2012 - 3 payments.
June 2012-March 2013 - 2 payments in each of those months
April 2013 - 1 payment
= 25 payments


I've re-read what i said & what i said was that April 2013 comes under the 2 payments per month comment i made. This was a mistake. April 2013 had only one payment as they wont be making 2 payments within 5 days. I missed this one when explaining.

If you re-read your posts properly you will realise that in fact you made no mention at all of April 2013, so my calculation based on what you did say was correct. But now we know that you missed telling us about one payment we understand how you got 25.

However, looking at the way dates fell between April 2012 and April 2013 I think there should have been 3 payments in January. If that didn't happen then perhaps there was either a third payment very late in December (made early due to bank holiday) or the second payment in December was actually for 4 weeks rather than 2. If you can say what date the one payment in April 2012 was made it should be easy enough to work out what the subsequent dates should have been.

jem16

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I don't remember my mum getting bereavement allowance. My memory is poor, but we've gone through both accounts of hers & looked at EVERY single entry in the money in column. Unless there was something between April 2012 up to Sept 2012 with Nationwide as her online account wont let us see those dates as they're more than 15 months ago.

She did get the bereavement payment that was a 1 off payment of about £2000, but this was paid in 2011.

Bereavement Payment and Bereavement Allowance are two separate benefits.

Anyone age 45 or over was entitled to either Bereavement Allowance or Widowed Parent's Allowance based on the husband's/wife's NI contributions. It's more than likely your Mum received Bereavement Allowance as the children were too old for her to be entitled to Widowed Parent's Allowance. If you look back at your previous posts you will see a similar amount under State Benefits. In that post there was confusion also but you just told us it had been sorted without telling us why so we are still guessing here.

JustAnotherSaver

agrinnall wrote: »

If you re-read your posts properly you will realise that in fact you made no mention at all of April 2013,

I also made no mention of June 2012, July 2012, August 2012 etc but we know they're there.

However, looking at the way dates fell between April 2012 and April 2013 I think there should have been 3 payments in January. If that didn't happen then perhaps there was either a third payment very late in December (made early due to bank holiday) or the second payment in December was actually for 4 weeks rather than 2. If you can say what date the one payment in April 2012 was made it should be easy enough to work out what the subsequent dates should have been.

TBH i'm not too sure how important these dates are. Unless i'm missing something then they're really not important at all.

I spent a good time going through the accounts with my mum & writing down each income. There is no "maybe there was a payment here or there", i'm telling you guys what the total is & i've told you which months had however many payments in them (now we've got past the confusion). Not sure why we're sticking on whether this month had more or less payments in as to me i can't see how it's important. It's the total within the 2012-13 tax year that is important.

jem16 wrote: »

Bereavement Payment and Bereavement Allowance are two separate benefits.

Anyone age 45 or over was entitled to either Bereavement Allowance or Widowed Parent's Allowance based on the husband's/wife's NI contributions. It's more than likely your Mum received Bereavement Allowance as the children were too old for her to be entitled to Widowed Parent's Allowance. If you look back at your previous posts you will see a similar amount under State Benefits. In that post there was confusion also but you just told us it had been sorted without telling us why so we are still guessing here.

I'll have a look. I should really note stuff down because my memory has turned awful. Will catch up with her when i get time & will get back to you guys with any update.

jimmo

Whilst we wait for mum to find out from HMRC about the State Benefits you might want to look again at the Incapacity Benefit.

The general rule is that State Benefits, including Incapacity benefit, are assessable to Income Tax on the arising basis, not the receipts basis.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM76004.htm



In other words mum is assessable on the amount she was entitled to for the tax year as opposed to the amount she received.

In my own case I reckon that for the tax year 2013/14 my entitlement is 1 week at the April 2012 rate and 51 weeks at the April 2013 rate.

Applying the same principles to your mum I would suggest that her entitlement to Incapacity Benefit for 2012/13 was probably:

1 week at £102.82

51 weeks at £105.05

Total £5460.37

HMRC have assessed her on £5458 which is close enough and I would suggest that if anything is wrong here you need to look at your figures again. If that doesn’t solve it has DWP underpaid your mum or has HMRC overtaxed her?

agrinnall

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I also made no mention of June 2012, July 2012, August 2012 etc but we know they're there.

TBH i'm not too sure how important these dates are. Unless i'm missing something then they're really not important at all.

I spent a good time going through the accounts with my mum & writing down each income. There is no "maybe there was a payment here or there", i'm telling you guys what the total is & i've told you which months had however many payments in them (now we've got past the confusion). Not sure why we're sticking on whether this month had more or less payments in as to me i can't see how it's important. It's the total within the 2012-13 tax year that is important.

Fine, have it your way, good luck but I'm out.

zygurat789

agrinnall wrote: »

I know, but that's not what the OP said had been paid, read the quote in my post. I suspect that they have read the statement incorrectly and there are in fact more payments, but neither you nor me can see that and at this time we have to go on what the OP said, and that comes to 24.

The OP seems unaware of the frequency of these payments. I, like you, was making the point that he had missed a receipt. If all else fails, check all the bank statements are there.

jem16

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Not sure why we're sticking on whether this month had more or less payments in as to me i can't see how it's important. It's the total within the 2012-13 tax year that is important.

It's important as we're trying to reconcile the figures with the P800. IB is paid fortnightly so in the tax year there will be 26 payments or 27 possibly if the dates fell a particular way. There is no way there should be 25 unless one payment from DWP wasn't paid which as jimmo says your Mum should take this up with DWP if this is the case.

I'll have a look. I should really note stuff down because my memory has turned awful. Will catch up with her when i get time & will get back to you guys with any update.

Ask Mum for her P2 coding notices for tax year 2012/13 and 2013/14. What do they say? It's important to get the tax codes correct when there is more than once income stream.

JustAnotherSaver

Right i asked her to dig out her paperwork so she gave me everything she has. Now i'm not about to start scanning every single pension payslip she's ever received but here's what i've scanned...

Note the date differences between the first 2 scans...





I scanned some payslips (1st & last/current) but then realised the first two i'd scanned were for this tax year & the charge isn't for THIS tax year it's for last. I'll upload them anyway...







Hopefully this will go some way to answering SOME of the questions at least.

agrinnall wrote: »

Fine, have it your way, good luck but I'm out.

Not being funny but no need to strop. All i said was that i don't see why it's relevant. The tax office have got in touch with my mum & they've given her totals for the year & saying it's the totals that count. Not what she received in August -vs- October & whether she had 3 payments when she should've had 2, it was just the totals.

Now if the fact she received 2 payments in a month when she should've received 3 or 1, but the end of the year result is the same regardless ... if that's important then you need to make me understand why because i don't get it. I'm happy to listen but just saying have it your way without explaining is pointless.

zygurat789 wrote: »

check all the bank statements are there.

Everything that can be checked at the moment has been checked & is correct.

I've said what can't be checked, but again this is April 2013 to September 2013 with Nationwide & this is where her DLA goes. She'd have to request the statements from Nationwide.

DLA (between those dates) aside, everything else is correct. By that i don't mean she's been paid correctly, but what i'm telling you (as in what she's received in her accounts) is what she's received.

jimmo

On Incapacity Benefit Jobcentreplus say that your mum was paid £5458 in 2012/13 and HMRC have assessed £5458.

You say that your mum received £5248 so the problem is that Jobcentreplus say they have paid your mum £210 more than she says she has received. That is what needs to be sorted out.

If your mum is right she needs to chase JCP either for the £210 they appear to owe her or for a revised Certificate for the correct amount paid because there is no way that HMRC will accept mum’s word over the existing JCP certificate.

The State Benefits of course remain the main issue so your mum still needs to ask HMRC about that. Legend has it that phoning HMRC as near as possible to 8.00 am is the best chance of getting through to a human being in a reasonable time. I can only say that it worked for me on the one occasion that I have needed to phone HMRC.