Friend working in shop - heating broken and it was freezing

ohreally

Employer is failing to comply...

Welfare regs 7 (1) During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be reasonable.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/regulation/7/made

Sec 5 of same regs...

The workplace and the equipment, devices and systems to which this regulation applies shall be maintained (including cleaned as appropriate) in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair.

dickydonkin

ValHaller wrote: »

Presumably the bosses of those working on market stalls at this time of year are not so crass as to tell their employees off for wearing a scarf?

What I am attempting to state is that when something like this happens, there are things an individual can do to mitigate the situation.

Even if scarves are not acceptable, fleeces and other garments very likely are! Certainly in our local large Tesco, check out staff whose tills are located near the entrance/exit do wear fleeces.

Welfare regs 7 (1) During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be reasonable.

'Reasonable' being the key word here and the minimum temperatures quoted up thread are just guidance.

The reality is that even of the employer is reported, I suspect that the local Environment Officer would deem the situation as not posing an iminent risk of danger and will likely deem the situation as a very low priority.

Speaking to the employer and union rep is the best way to resolve the problem - even if you have to be persistent - try mentioning that customers are also complaining.

ValHaller

dickydonkin wrote: »

What I am attempting to state is that when something like this happens, there are things an individual can do to mitigate the situation.

Even if scarves are not acceptable, fleeces and other garments very likely are! Certainly in our local large Tesco, check out staff whose tills are located near the entrance/exit do wear fleeces.

Let us give that short shrift.

In this case the individual did attempt to mitigate with a scarf. Management did nothing to mitigate, just rebuked the employee and it seems did not offer any alternative to the scarf.

Really, OP probably would not have posted if the scarf had been accepted or an alternative issued. As I read this problem, it is not so much an issue of the heating failing as a contemptuous attitude from management.

dickydonkin

ValHaller wrote: »

Let us give that short shrift.

In this case the individual did attempt to mitigate with a scarf. Management did nothing to mitigate, just rebuked the employee and it seems did not offer any alternative to the scarf.

Really, OP probably would not have posted if the scarf had been accepted or an alternative issued. As I read this problem, it is not so much an issue of the heating failing as a contemptuous attitude from management.

You can give it what you like - but I am providing a realistic appraisal of the situation.

I think we are all aware of workplaces where things are not perfect- and indeed managements contempt for their staff, but where such situations exist, you have to try to make the best of a bad situation, unless there is a very serious health and safety breach where more drastic action will be required.

Regarding the scarf, we don't know if there is a uniform policy or what other work the OP carries out. A scarf may pose a risk of entanglement or it is more likely a hygiene issue bearing in mind the type of workplace.

Working in a cold shop is not ideal, but it isn't life threatening either!

ValHaller

dickydonkin wrote: »

You can give it what you like - but I am providing a realistic appraisal of the situation.

I think we are all aware of workplaces where things are not perfect- and indeed managements contempt for their staff, but where such situations exist, you have to try to make the best of a bad situation, unless there is a very serious health and safety breach where more drastic action will be required.

Regarding the scarf, we don't know if there is a uniform policy or what other work the OP carries out. A scarf may pose a risk of entanglement or it is more likely a hygiene issue bearing in mind the type of workplace.

Working in a cold shop is not ideal, but it isn't life threatening either!

Scarf? Risk of entanglement? Hygiene for a tucked in scarf? Do you really want to invoke 'elf and safety to drown this?

The baseline problem is that management (ie one idiot probably) was not satisfied that his staff had adapted to the failed heating and had worked around the problem. He had to throw his weight around and invoke the uniform policy without providing suitable uniform. It is indefensible.

dickydonkin

ValHaller wrote: »

Scarf? Risk of entanglement? Hygiene for a tucked in scarf? Do you really want to invoke 'elf and safety to drown this?

The baseline problem is that management (ie one idiot probably) was not satisfied that his staff had adapted to the failed heating and had worked around the problem. He had to throw his weight around and invoke the uniform policy without providing suitable uniform. It is indefensible.

Wow - a lot of assumptions.

So you are fully aware of the company's uniform policy?

Are you also sure that the OP's "friend" does not operate machinery as part of her other duties such as a baling machine (quite common in supermarkets) which a trailing scarf could become entanged. (You did say her scarf was tucked in) - but again, another assumption.

In respect of hygiene, I would prefer that bits of scarf were not in contact with my food.

What has not been considered is that the OP's "friend" has not indicated if the employer has indeed been informed about the problem and if there is anything in the pipeline to rectify it.

The heating system may be in the process of being repaired, maybe a spare part that is required may be delaying the repair - we just don't know - but to suggest that an 'idiot' is responsible for the situation without even knowing the full story is unwise.

Certainly in my job, I have learned that it is dangerous to assume anything - some may suggest you should adopt the same principle.

patanne

The symptoms of hypothermia begin at temperatures much higher than freezing & could cause confusion which = mistakes even when standing. 14C is just above the level for a sedentary job. Standing still would not make much difference to that temperature, although moving, such as walking up and down the aisles would make a difference. So the OPs friend is right to be worried about the cold as they could well be blamed for any mistakes made whilst actually suffering from hypothermia. This creeps up on you so that you are totally unaware that you are suffering (I avoided the word victim here!!)

ValHaller

dickydonkin wrote: »

Wow - a lot of assumptions.

So you are fully aware of the company's uniform policy?

Are you also sure that the OP's "friend" does not operate machinery as part of her other duties such as a baling machine (quite common in supermarkets) which a trailing scarf could become entanged. (You did say her scarf was tucked in) - but again, another assumption.

In respect of hygiene, I would prefer that bits of scarf were not in contact with my food.

What has not been considered is that the OP's "friend" has not indicated if the employer has indeed been informed about the problem and if there is anything in the pipeline to rectify it.

The heating system may be in the process of being repaired, maybe a spare part that is required may be delaying the repair - we just don't know - but to suggest that an 'idiot' is responsible for the situation without even knowing the full story is unwise.

Certainly in my job, I have learned that it is dangerous to assume anything - some may suggest you should adopt the same principle.

Obviously, you are not reading properly. The idiot is the manager who tells staff off for wearing a scarf but does not offer an alternative. Nothing to do with whether the heating system is being repaired or not.

OP says the scarf was worn under the uniform fleece. So no real assumption on my part there. But if the scarf was worn outside the fleece or did represent a real danger, well, you have just dropped your mate the idiot manager even further in it, because he definitely should be providing a satisfactory alternative.

Really, you are defending the indefensible.

dickydonkin

ValHaller wrote: »

Really, you are defending the indefensible.

There's nothing to defend - no law is being breached.

ValHaller

dickydonkin wrote: »

There's nothing to defend - no law is being breached.

Bad behaviour by an idiot manager who tells off his staff for wearing scarves while not providing an alternative does not break any laws. But it is still an indefensible way of carrying on.