Very VERY Worried About Online Self Assessment

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Cutting Tax
10 replies 1.1K views
fallen121fallen121 Forumite
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edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Cutting Tax
On 17th August this year I received a letter saying I needed to register for Online Self Assessment as I am affected by the changes to Child Benefit.


I duly registered online on 7th September and received a User ID and UTR. I then registered for self assessment a few days later.


One thing worried me was that even after a few weeks, it only showed records from 2004 which was the last time I filed Self Assessment. Since that time I have not filed because HMRC wrote to me in 2005 to say that as I am on PAYE and my tax affairs were "Mundane" I would not need to file a self assessment again unless they wrote to me or my circumstances changed significantly. Neither of which have happened.


Today I received a letter from HMRC saying that according to their records I have never registered for online Self Assessment and missed the deadline of 5th October. I can't understand this as I needed my National Insurance number to register - why isn't it showing up at their end?


Will I be fined for missing the deadline?


I logged on tonight and apart from my tax return from 2004 there is no information and my National Insurance number doesn't show up anywhere. Also under the PAYE coding letters it just shows up blank when I click on it.


Have I somehow created a dummy tax account? Worried now that I somehow have two identities at HMRC.


Opened the letter too late to phone and the letter that came today had no address or phone number.


I am off work ill with some vomiting illness I cannot shake and right now this is just adding to my stress and pain.


Can I be fined if I showed I have registered?


Can I get my current online account merged with my real tax account so I can at least see some details?


Who and what number do I call?


How has this happened?


Really happening at the wrong time as my husband has just lost his job and we are under so much stress with everything falling apart and also found out today that someone is trying to sue him.


Getting hassle to go back to work.


Don't know what to do, beginning to panic. Actually passed out on the toilet last night at 3am with all the worry over what has been happening and this letter is just the last straw.


Please don't judge - at the end of my tether.

Replies

  • redpeteredpete Forumite
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    Are they asking you to provide a SA return for the tax year 2012/13?

    I don't think you need worry about not having entries after 2005 - they are asking you to file a SA this year, not back-dated for previous years as well.

    I also think that the deadlines for which you can be fined are for filing the tax return, not for missing a registration deadline. The deadline for filing online is 31st Jan 2014 (it was 31 October for paper returns so this is no longer a possibility for you.)

    I don't know what the 5th October registration deadline means so I would just phone them in the morning and not worry about large fines.
    loose does not rhyme with choose but lose does and is the word you meant to write.
  • edited 29 November 2013 at 2:02AM
    DelphinaDelphina Forumite
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    edited 29 November 2013 at 2:02AM
    The contact details are on this link:

    http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/view.page?record=OILdX1VAnlM

    Try to ring early or late at 7 something PM, if the lines are busy.

    It sounds as though HMRC thought that you failed to register for SA in time. Or the stupid letter might have been issued incorrectly by the system when they re-opened your SA record so that tax returns would be issued out correctly.

    5/10 is:

    Deadline to notify chargeability for Income Tax/ Capital Gains Tax for 2012-13 if not registered for Self Assessment.

    ( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/agents/tax-deadlines.pdf )

    Your SA online account does not need merging with your tax account. They are already linked. I think, if your last return required by HMRC was the 2004 one, then it is normal for you to see it as the most recent one that you filed. If you are asked to file the 2012-2013 return, you should be able to access it now. If you are only asked to submit the 2013-2014, you can access it from 6/4/14 at the earliest!

    If there were overdue returns from as early as 2005, you would have got into serious trouble possibly before 2009, if HMRC always has your correct address.

    I have not looked at my SA online account for a while but I think you only see the UTR not NI.

    There is a slim chance that someone unfortunately has two UTR numbers and, as a result, ends up with two SA records. But once HMRC is aware, they can sort that and any incorrect fines and penalties out for you. It is by no means ideal or acceptable, but I hope that you are feeling a bit less worried. You can check the UTR on that letter against your SA record and existing SA paperworks, just in case. I am not convinced that you have two UTRs.
  • OP , having read your first pots a couple of times, I am inclined to agree with Delphina in that there is little to worry about. You cannot possibly be able to see any details since 2004 as you have not filed an onine return since then and your PAYE records are not linked automatically to your SA.

    Choose the 'tailor your return' option for 2012/13 and I believe that you will be fine.

    Do mention the 5th October deadline warning - it does sound as if HMRC have messed up here!
  • Prothet_of_DoomProthet_of_Doom Forumite
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    nomunnofun wrote: »
    OP , having read your first pots a couple of times, I am inclined to agree with Delphina in that there is little to worry about. You cannot possibly be able to see any details since 2004 as you have not filed an onine return since then and your PAYE records are not linked automatically to your SA.

    Choose the 'tailor your return' option for 2012/13 and I believe that you will be fine.

    Do mention the 5th October deadline warning - it does sound as if HMRC have messed up here!

    5th October would be for paper based ? maybe ?

    Although when I realised I needed to register for self assessment it was 3 weeks before the Jan 31st deadline, and the HMRC automatically gave me an extra 3 months, despite the fact that it was my fault, not realising before then.
  • 5 October was the deadline for registering for self-assessment for those people who have child benefit clawback to report. However, Lin Homer - head of HMRC - as committed that there will be no fines for those who were late in registering.

    31 October was the date for submitting a paper return. 31 January 2014 is now the only SA date still in the future - any return filed after that will incur fines. I suspect there will be no leniency for child benefit clawback folk.

    As per previous posts on here by me, if income is in the £50k to £60k range, for a significant minority, perhaps even most, of those people they should be making personal pension payments so that their adjusted net income falls and then 2 things happen:

    1. Child benefit clawback falls to zero.
    2. They are no longer required to file a SA return by virtue of the clawback alone - there may be other reasons why they are though.

    4 or 5 of my clients took this advice on board back in Feb 13 so are not on the hit list for SA.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
  • chrismac1 wrote: »
    31 October was the date for submitting a paper return. 31 January 2014 is now the only SA date still in the future - any return filed after that will incur fines. .

    May I just point out the 30th December deadline for underpayments to be coded?

    Just another date (the 30th - why?) to confuse people.
  • edited 29 November 2013 at 2:26PM
    fallen121fallen121 Forumite
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    edited 29 November 2013 at 2:26PM
    Thank you to all have contributed and especially for the details of how to contact HMRC. Quite why they would send a letter which has NO contact address and no phone number when they are supposed to be encouraging you to keep in touch...oh never mind. But thanks anyhow and also for the advise to call early as I phoned at 8.11am and spoke to someone who really seemed to know what she was doing and went through everything with a fine toothcomb.


    Based on my P60, professional subscriptions and gift aid donations, I fall just UNDER the threshold for year ending 5th April 2013. She did ask about pensions but I am in a company scheme and when I explained which one and the fact that it is one of those where the company pays on you behalf and you make a salary sacrifice to save tax apparently that doesn't count. So not affected for CHB payments made January - April this year, I can keep those. And no SA required either it seems because my account is what is known as "dormant" for SA purposes.


    However, because of a good bonus in THIS tax year, looks like I will go over for year ended 5th April 2014 so she is "reactivating" my SA for 2014. So I will be sent a form to complete that. Or to do online.


    Apparently a lot of these letters which are generated are automatic?


    Now have to go off and do some work as HMRC have identified that my interest and dividends have been wrongly over declared because in 2004 when I last submitted an SA my employer were still paying dividends on their shares and of course they haven't since then so of course I may have paid too much tax. So I may be due back some money for tax years 2010, 11, 12 and 13. Fortunately I have all the interest certificates etc. from the Banks going back to 2005 and statement showing how the dividends have reduced from about £300 PA to zero.


    Overall a good outcome so I am feeling a bit more positive now. And my general health is improving, so planning on going back to work Monday. My fainting I think was to do with being so dehydrated as a result of norovirus, I have had a hard time shaking it off but rehydration salts are helping although I still look like a dried prune.


    The party planning to sue my husband has now declared they are prepared to arbitrate and he has had the offer of some temporary work which will get us through Christmas at least.


    Thank you all.
  • PlutoinCapricornPlutoinCapricorn Forumite
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    The return for 2013/14 will be due between April 6th 2014 and Jan 21st 2015, although it is best not to wait until the last minute. Filing online is the best way to do it.

    I look at my online account and can see a gap in SA for a few years when I was PAYE only. They have the figures for tax years before and after.

    It is good to hear that other problems are diminishing: your post may inspire other people.
    Who having known the diamond will concern himself with glass?

    Rudyard Kipling


  • GamblerGambler Forumite
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    chrismac1 wrote: »
    31 October was the date for submitting a paper return. 31 January 2014 is now the only SA date still in the future - any return filed after that will incur fines. I suspect there will be no leniency for child benefit clawback folk.

    There better had be. I registered for SA on 13-Sep and received email confirmation. Spoke to HMRC today and they have no record of my application. I have had to register again.

    No chance of making the 31-Jan deadline. The staff I spoke to were not interested.
  • chrismac1chrismac1 Forumite
    2.6K Posts
    The most important thing is to keep a PDF of the e-mail confirmation, this is your record that you behaved as a reasonable taxpayer. If HMRC are too incompetent to issue a 10 digit number to you within 4 months that is down to them.

    They will fine you if you have not filed by 31 Jan. In fact I expect a big surge in fines this year because these incompetent fools can't issue UTRs properly. You will then appeal the fine. They'll come up with all sorts of silly reasons why you have to pay it. You'll threaten to go to the Tribunals, maybe if they are stupid enough for long enough you'll even go there.

    They'll lose. In fact once you file the papers they'll probably throw their hand in then and there. That's how they operate. It will get worse in the next year due to staff cuts and no change in the utterly incompetent management teams who run the show.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
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