Roughly how much should we pay for an accountant?

Taxes1

chrismac1 wrote: »

I can barely believe the last post to be honest.


I assure you every word is true. I am speaking as a bank manager of 20 years experience from a time when we REALLY got involved in customers businesses and had several occasions to rectify an accountants omissions. Once, when the customer then asked his accountant why he had not made the recommendations himself he was told "You did not ask me", to which the client replied "I did not know what to ask"!!

Your firm may be an exception but many accountants do not look for possible problems; they simply process that which is placed before them- a difficult enough task when you see many businesses bookkeeping! Perhaps other members have relevant experiences.

Do you consider all my remarks dishonest?

chrismac1

It's actually not a great business idea as an accountant to just sit back either. There have been cases in 2013 where clients have sued the accountant for failing to provide advice which would have saved tax or otherwise improved their businesses. The accountants have lost at least 2 of these cases.

In Mehjoo v Harben Barker the accountant failed to provide decent advice on international taxes. I am with the client on this one, I have 1 client with business affairs across the globe. There is no way I would give that guy specific advice on his international tax position, I have referred him to experts in that field and helped him find decent guys in some of the countries.

There was another case where the client had remained a sole trader where for 2 reasons - limited liability and NI savings - he should have been a limited company. Again any half decent accountant proactively manages these situations.

One of my best clients came to me after a conversation down the pub. You can get a 50% business rates rebate in this area if you operate from just one site, I told the guy about this and he ended up getting a £5k rebate.

He asked his accountant about this and the guy said "Oh we don't bother with that stuff we just do the books."

Wrong answer on so many levels. End of client for that guy.

zygurat789

Bank managers, ah yes, didn't they bring about the financial crisis we're still in and aren't they the ones who closed down companies just so they could make more profit?

People should be careful as to whom to take advice from.

fiscalfreckles

The very fact that she won't meet you face to face initially, when you - the client - want to, would put me off from the word go.
Shop around, as others have said. Many accountants will offer a free initial meeting & you can discuss rates (may be hourly, may be fixed fee) & how they will work with you. The latter was a major factor for me; like you I do a certain amount myself & need to know am comfortable with working with them.

blizeH

Thanks all, we've got an appointment booked in with someone else on the Thursday now, like I said I'm very happy to pay for advice, and in fact would very much welcome it, think I need to chat with someone face to face to get started though, and like you said they might offer some other services that we're keen on having too (I know my girlfriend 100% wants to use an accountant for her business)

Delphina

I would personally be a bit reluctant to use a one-man firm. I have seen a few people ending up with problems due to accountant's death or disappearance (in one case, along with the client's tax refund).

Pennywise

Delphina wrote: »

I would personally be a bit reluctant to use a one-man firm. I have seen a few people who ended up with problems due to accountant's death or disappearance (in one case, along with the client's tax refund).

As long as the accountant is qualified and regulated then there will be a continuity arrangement in force to prevent problems in case of death or long term illness.

As for theft/disappearance, etc., that's not limited to one band bands - just google Upton Accountants in Wakefield to see a firm with many staff where the owner took hundreds of thousands of clients' money. Also one of the partners in the firm where I trained was later convicted of stealing clients' money - despite him not being the only partner and there being about 20 staff!

I'd say a "one man band" is no worse than a larger firm when it comes to it - as long as they're properly qualified & regulated with one of the chartered bodies. If they're not qualified/regulated, then that's a risk that the client has to take, not just for the risk of death/disappearance, but also for poor work etc.

Delphina

Thanks for letting me know, Pennywise.

I only use chartered accountants myself. I have had two so far. Both charge about the same but the quality is sadly not.

So is it possible for a certified partner/owner or a certified one-man band to steal money? If yes, what happens when their dishonesty is revealed? Is any relevant official body going to compensate the clients?

chrismac1

As far as I am concerned there is no reason whatsoever for an accountant to be accessing clients' bank accounts or other monies. Twice in the past 4 years I have requested client tax refunds to be paid into my practice bank account, then paid the funds on following deduction of fees.

In both cases I made it clear to the clients in writing - who both had records of consistent slow pay - that this was the basis on which I would do their accounts unless they wished to pay the full fee up front.

So to the OP and other readers there is no reason to put any accountant in a position to steal YOUR money. If other clients are daft enough to do it, so be it.

sunshinetours

Delphina wrote: »

Thanks for letting me know, Pennywise.

I only use chartered accountants myself. I have had two so far. Both charge about the same but the quality is sadly not.

So is it possible for a certified partner/owner or a certified one-man band to steal money? If yes, what happens when their dishonesty is revealed? Is any relevant official body going to compensate the clients?

The reality is yes it is possible for any professional to steal clients monies. Client bank accounts are "ring fenced" so banks cannot touch them or be up for grab for general creditors and such but clearly the principal(s) in any legal or accountancy practice have access to such money by being a cheque signatory.
If they are going to commit fraud they are going to commit fraud, and yes it is reality in many practices easier for a sole trader , who will control finances,. to do this than a multi partner firm that will have processes for approval of payment of funds spread around more than one partner for certain sized transactions.

The reality is, the vast majority of accountants and solicitors will not be dishonest and are subject to more rules and regulations by the ICAEW, ACCA or SRA for solicitors than most people would believe possible.

As previously mentioned recommended professionals from others who have dealt with them is generally best where possible